Celestial Post Ressurection Lobotomy?

[Radrook]

Some Christians argue that the resurrected will be happily in bliss even though they will then know for a certainty that a son, daughter, friend, brother, sister, father mother or other loved one is being tortured in a flaming hell in the everlasting meantime.

Since that would be an impossibility if they had known it for sure while on Earth-does that mean that they will undergo some type of drastic, mental alteration analogous to a partial lobotomy in order to bring that personality transformation about? If indeed so, then couldn't it be argued that the resurrection did not really resurrect the persons but replaced them with uncaring versions of themselves?

 

[SkyWriting]

Some Christians argue that the resurrected will be happily in bliss even though they know then for a certainty that a son, daughter, friend, brother, sister, father mother or other loved one is being tortured in a flaming hell in the everlasting meantime. Since that would be an impossibility if they knew that for sure while on earth-does that mean that they will undergo some type of drastic, mental alteration of their analogous to a partial lobotomy that will suddenly make them totally uncaring in that inhumane way?

Ever seen a dead person? I have. No pain.

 

[Radrook]

The word is "torment" and it has to do with living forever with ones own decisions. Hell is where your tortured soul goes, without a body.
Ever seen a dead person? I gave. No pain.

Your response does clarify something which is very relevant. The fact that some individuals will need no transformation because it doesn't bother them even if they knew it before the resurrection. On the other hand, those are not the persons that I am referring to. The ones I am referring to are person who would indeed care about the suffering and who are said to be in bliss once they get resurrected. In short, are they scheduled for a spiritual lobotomy?

 

[sdowney717]

Isaiah 66
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

We get transformed with a new resurrected body of flesh like Christ had after His resurrection. But it is of a different nature having a far surpassing glory compared to our previous life.

Luke 24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

When we have a more perfect knowledge, then the former things are no longer remembered as we thought they should be in our prior life.
We do become changed. Not lobotomized but God does wipe away all our tears. Yet we will still be aware of and know all things of our prior life. The things of our past, their relevance though fades.

Philippians 3:15
Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

 

[Radrook]

Isaiah 66
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

We get transformed with a new resurrected body of flesh like Christ had after His resurrection. But it is of a different nature having a far surpassing glory compared to our previous life.

Luke 24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

When we have a more perfect knowledge, then the former things are no longer remembered as we thought they should be in our prior life.
We do become changed. Not lobotomized but God does wipe away all our tears. Yet we will still be aware of and know all things of our prior life. The things of our past, their relevance though fades.

Philippians 3:15
Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

The real question is whether such a transformation into an uncaring person in reference to human suffering constitutes a moral degradation or a righteous moral improvement. . A moral improvement would be a transformation from an uncaring person to one who cares for the suffering of others and not one which is suddenly incapable of merciful compassionate empathy or one who now easily forgets or easily ignores that humans are being cooked alive forever. Such hideous transformation flies in the face of all that we as humans know to be ethical justice. It purports to endow an inhumane alien nature which mankind would readily recognize as repulsively inhuman if we were suddenly confronted with it via some extraterrestrial alien species contact .

That is why I do not believe the Hell-Fire doctrine of eternal torture. It not only portrays a cruel, unforgiving, sadistic God, but it also demands that those who join him in that scheme become just like him-cruel unforgiving and sadistic.

 

[SkyWriting]

Your response does clarify something which is very relevant. The fact that some individuals will need no transformation because it doesn't bother them even if they knew it before the resurrection. On the other hand, those are not the persons that I am referring to. The ones I am referring to are person who would indeed care about the suffering and who are said to be in bliss once they get resurrected. In short, are they scheduled for a spiritual lobotomy?

There is no "bliss" in scripture, so it's hard for
anyone to take your question as it stands.
You may be thinking of your New Age studies?
Bliss Quotes (80) Spiritual Sayings

 

[sdowney717]

The real question is whether such a transformation into an uncaring person in reference to human suffering constitutes a moral degradation or a righteous moral improvement. . A moral improvement would be a transformation from an uncaring person to one who cares for the suffering of others and not one which is suddenly incapable of merciful compassionate empathy or one who now easily forgets or easily ignores that humans are being cooked alive forever. Such hideous transformation flies in the face of all that we as humans know to be ethical justice. It purports to endow an inhumane alien nature which mankind would readily recognize as repulsively inhuman if we were suddenly confronted with it via some extraterrestrial alien species contact .

That is why I do not believe the Hell-Fire doctrine of eternal torture. It not only portrays a cruel, unforgiving, sadistic God, but it also demands that those who join him in that scheme become just like him-cruel unforgiving and sadistic.

At some point, everyone is going to die and be judged either with Christ or judged without Christ.
Scripture is clear about hell as a place of torment and heaven as a place of good things.

2 Thessalonians 1Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: 2 grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth; 4 so that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:5 which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: 6 seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7 and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. 11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: 12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[sdowney717]

Jesus saves us from God's wrath.
1 Thessalonians 1:9-10Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; 10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

 

[Radrook]

At some point, everyone is going to die and be judged either with Christ or judged without Christ.
Scripture is clear about hell as a place of torment and heaven as a place of good things.

2 Thessalonians 1Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: 2 grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth; 4 so that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:5 which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: 6 seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7 and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. 11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: 12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

The scriptures are clear to some Christians that God sends people to be roasted alive forever. But not all Christians view those scriptures as clearly meaning that God sends people who don't do as he demands to be roasted alive forever. Other Christians prefer to understand those scriptures differently because understanding them literally would depict God in a very bad moral light..

 

[Radrook]

There is no "bliss" in scripture, so it's hard for
anyone to take your question as it stands.
You may be thinking of your New Age studies?
Bliss Quotes (80) Spiritual Sayings

I don't understand what you mean.

 

[Chriliman]

Some Christians argue that the resurrected will be happily in bliss even though they will then know for a certainty that a son, daughter, friend, brother, sister, father mother or other loved one is being tortured in a flaming hell in the everlasting meantime.

Since that would be an impossibility if they had known it for sure while on Earth-does that mean that they will undergo some type of drastic, mental alteration analogous to a partial lobotomy in order to bring that personality transformation about? If indeed so, then couldn't it be argued that the resurrection did not really resurrect the persons but replaced them with uncaring versions of themselves?

This is something I often think about as well. Ultimately, I believe that at some point in the future all suffering everywhere will end and God will be all in all and make everything new, which is why at that time we won't be effected by the thought of suffering.

Isaiah 65:17
"See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind."

Exciting!

 

[Radrook]

This is something I often think about as well. Ultimately, I believe that at some point in the future all suffering everywhere will end and God will be all in all and make everything new, which is why at that time we won't be effected by the thought of suffering.

Isaiah 65:17
"See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind."

Exciting!

So you don't believe in the eternal torment doctrine.

 

[1213]

Some Christians argue that the resurrected will be happily in bliss even though they will then know for a certainty that a son, daughter, friend, brother, sister, father mother or other loved one is being tortured in a flaming hell in the everlasting meantime....

I believe that the happiness is because then they understand hell is not bad and not like some people claim, but what the Bible tells, place where unrighteous persons are destroyed entirely.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. ..
Matt. 10:28-31

I believe that happens because if unrighteous would live eternally, he would make life eternal suffering.

And I believe hell is what those people, who are sent into it, want. I believe they want to be eternally separated from God.

 

[Chriliman]

So you don't believe in the eternal torment doctrine.

I used to, but recently I haven't been able reconcile the thought of an all loving God allowing people he created to suffer endless torment.

I believe God does allow us to suffer to various degrees, but for a reason that leads to a good end. There is no good end in the ECT doctrine, it can only result in more and more suffering, which is incompatible with the loving God I know.