CDC Cautions Churches ... after COVID 19 outbreak

[Hank77]

The lepers were isolated. Not the healthy who weren't infected.

There is no biblical mandate to quarantine the healthy to keep from getting into contact with the sick.

And, as an odd course of events, the Israelites were an unusually healthy population. They also had greater ease with childbearing according to foreigners.

So no. No quarantine of the healthy in Scriptures except in the case of the Egyptian plague, which I don't think we can compare this to. Not seen God telling us to hide ourselves from the plague, and I have my doubts about the Pastors that make the comparison, not that I can say for sure I suppose.

Seems more a natural event in the course of time. Stuff occurs, life goes on. The sun shines and the rain falls on the righteous and the unrighteous alike.

My point was why did God tell them to isolate the lepers? What was the purpose?

Then why did God tell the Israelites to put the infected lepers out of the camp if it wasn't in order to isolate the infected and save the lives of others?

Why didn't He just not allow anyone else to get sick?

Why didn't He just heal the lepers and keep others from getting infected and dying?

Seeing we can't see with our eyes if anyone is sick...
What do you think God's guidance would be today for keeping others safe from catching the virus and saving people's lives?

 

[RDKirk]

The lepers were isolated. Not the healthy who weren't infected.

There is no biblical mandate to quarantine the healthy to keep from getting into contact with the sick.

And, as an odd course of events, the Israelites were an unusually healthy population. They also had greater ease with childbearing according to foreigners.

So no. No quarantine of the healthy in Scriptures except in the case of the Egyptian plague, which I don't think we can compare this to. Not seen God telling us to hide ourselves from the plague, and I have my doubts about the Pastors that make the comparison, not that I can say for sure I suppose.

Seems more a natural event in the course of time. Stuff occurs, life goes on. The sun shines and the rain falls on the righteous and the unrighteous alike.

Passover itself was a quarantine of the healthy.

 

[Hazelelponi]

...

Seeing we can't see with our eyes if anyone is sick...
What do you think God's guidance would be today for keeping others safe from catching the virus and saving people's lives?

I think a short period of time without assembly was an okay thing (it's okay to forego church when your sick or otherwise unable to attend)... so it was fine to step back, see what was happening with the virus to better assess the position the church needed to take, and how to best proceed as a community of believers for the good of us all.

I didn't complain at first, although I did argue against those trying to say assembly was unnecessary to our faith, as it's absolutely a command in Scripture, it's just not as stringent a faith as we know if we are sick it's better to stay home and we know our salvation is not dependant upon works, unlike other religions.

However, it's still a command. We don't just say ah... don't really feel up to it today, I'd rather binge watch t.v. sort of thing. It's important. very much so.

So okay, we stepped back, watched the news, heard from doctors on all sides etc etc

Now we have to decide (been two months now btw of no church mandated by government) how to proceed. Should have decided a month ago...

And it comes down to 1 thing. Who do we love, government? Or God? Who do we serve? Government? Or God? In whose name do we preach? Government? God?

I would hope the answer would be God, although that is not always the case. My church in particular just said we cannot have service so long as the government says we cant. But okay. So the church I've been attending serves government, and it's time I find a new one..

But my answer is definitely God. I serve God. Therefore, I must ask God where my priorities should lie here.

We see what the Bible says.

Long term we can't skip assembly, but we certainly can tailor in-person assembly in a way thats best in light of the pandemic. I don't minds social distancing, grouping families apart from other families, seating every other row and wearing masks. Or, we could do open air assembly with the same premises involved etc.

But if God is first, if it's God whom we serve, then we should not skip church until there's a vaccine or some other government goalpost. All of life is risk, this is no different, and we should value Him more than our own life. If we don't, I think we have far greater issues than a pandemic. For real.

When it comes down to it, this virus isn't as virulent as once thought. It's below or around a 1% mortality rate, higher than a flu - although we have vaccines and the flu still kills 10's of thousands a year - but far less than we thought.

People should make their own choices. We can't determine for others whether they attend, especially those at high risk who are already sick, but at the same time running around pointing out every small outbreak in the country by people in church and declaring the faithful worse than murderers, is equally wrong.

They know the risks, they made God their first choice. There's nothing wrong with that, and no one should be continually condemned by other Christians as being cold hearted murderers all day long on every Christian forum on the planet.

We should pray for them, that God bring them through this with even greater faith, Instead, Christians are cursing them.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Passover itself was a quarantine of the healthy.

You don't actually read posts do you...

I said:

"So no. No quarantine of the healthy in Scriptures except in the case of the Egyptian plague, which I don't think we can compare this to. Not seen God telling us to hide ourselves from the plague, and I have my doubts about the Pastors that make the comparison, not that I can say for sure I suppose."

^^^ My quote, from right there in your post... the Egyptian plague (aka Passover). And unless you can find me a proven prophet whose never once been wrong, declaring God said we need to hide ourselves from this pandemic until it passes, stated prior to the start of the pandemic - I'll not be pretending this is Passover 3.0.

 

[Hank77]

...


I think a short period of time without assembly was an okay thing (it's okay to forego church when your sick or otherwise unable to attend)... so it was fine to step back, see what was happening with the virus to better assess the position the church needed to take, and how to best proceed as a community of believers for the good of us all.

I didn't complain at first, although I did argue against those trying to say assembly was unnecessary to our faith, as it's absolutely a command in Scripture, it's just not as stringent a faith as we know if we are sick it's better to stay home and we know our salvation is not dependant upon works, unlike other religions.

However, it's still a command. We don't just say ah... don't really feel up to it today, I'd rather binge watch t.v. sort of thing. It's important. very much so.

So okay, we stepped back, watched the news, heard from doctors on all sides etc etc

Now we have to decide (been two months now btw of no church mandated by government) how to proceed. Should have decided a month ago...

And it comes down to 1 thing. Who do we love, government? Or God? Who do we serve? Government? Or God? In whose name do we preach? Government? God?

I would hope the answer would be God, although that is not always the case. My church in particular just said we cannot have service so long as the government says we cant. But okay. So the church I've been attending serves government, and it's time I find a new one..

But my answer is definitely God. I serve God. Therefore, I must ask God where my priorities should lie here.

We see what the Bible says.

Long term we can't skip assembly, but we certainly can tailor in-person assembly in a way thats best in light of the pandemic. I don't minds social distancing, grouping families apart from other families, seating every other row and wearing masks. Or, we could do open air assembly with the same premises involved etc.

But if God is first, if it's God whom we serve, then we should not skip church until there's a vaccine or some other government goalpost. All of life is risk, this is no different, and we should value Him more than our own life. If we don't, I think we have far greater issues than a pandemic. For real.

When it comes down to it, this virus isn't as virulent as once thought. It's below or around a 1% mortality rate, higher than a flu - although we have vaccines and the flu still kills 10's of thousands a year - but far less than we thought.

People should make their own choices. We can't determine for others whether they attend, especially those at high risk who are already sick, but at the same time running around pointing out every small outbreak in the country by people in church and declaring the faithful worse than murderers, is equally wrong.

They know the risks, they made God their first choice. There's nothing wrong with that, and no one should be continually condemned by other Christians as being cold hearted murderers all day long on every Christian forum on the planet.

We should pray for them, that God bring them through this with even greater faith, Instead, Christians are cursing them.

So you're not going to answer my questions.
God Bless

 

[RDKirk]

You don't actually read posts do you...

I said:

"So no. No quarantine of the healthy in Scriptures except in the case of the Egyptian plague, which I don't think we can compare this to. Not seen God telling us to hide ourselves from the plague, and I have my doubts about the Pastors that make the comparison, not that I can say for sure I suppose."

^^^ My quote, from right there in your post... the Egyptian plague aka Passover.

The Church of God in Christ has lost 13 bishops and pastors to covid-19.

What you're calling a "command" says in full:

And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, not forsaking the assembling together of ourselves as is the custom with some, but encouraging one another, and so much more as you see the Day drawing near.
Hebrews 10

This is not a command simply that everyone meets in a big room every Sunday morning. This is a command not to refuse to assemble and make that one's custom. That's what many people in these forums actually do: "I'm a Christian, but I don't believe in being a member of a church."

The entirety of the instruction in Hebrews is to continue to fellowship, to encourage, to share burdens, to love each other and do good deeds. If your congregation is continuing to do all of that as best you can, not making it your custom to shun assembly, you're following the instruction.

 

[Hazelelponi]

The Church of God in Christ has lost 13 bishops and pastors to covid-19.

What you're calling a "command" says in full:

And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, not forsaking the assembling together of ourselves as is the custom with some, but encouraging one another, and so much more as you see the Day drawing near.
Hebrews 10

This is not a command simply that everyone meets in a big room every Sunday morning. This is a command not to refuse to assemble and make that one's custom. That's what many people in these forums actually do: "I'm a Christian, but I don't believe in being a member of a church."

The entirety of the instruction in Hebrews is to continue to fellowship, to encourage, to share burdens, to love each other and do good deeds. If your congregation is continuing to do all of that as best you can, not making it your custom to shun assembly, you're following the instruction.

They stopped everything. They really did. They don't call, they stopped checking in on one another..

they Facebook some, mainly stupid yet funny posts. Nothing real.

It's not right. And every singl time Christians say beware, be afraid, seems to me it's just making it worse. They've stopped being Christian in practice.

Sure. Now it's online preaching. Okay. No comfort of one another... no meetings. Just here's your sermons.. here's your Sunday school (which I can live without as they are a different denomination than me I just enjoyed church there and it's close by) if we're on a list they'll pray.

It's death by government and fear.

 

[Hazelelponi]

So you're not going to answer my questions.
God Bless

I thought I wrote an entire book?

 

[Richard T]

I don't think they should fear the loss of their life in this body more than they love God.

To me Christianity is a choice. We can serve God due to our great love of Him, or we can serve our own temporal interests.

If we are hiding under rocks screaming fear of everything but God, we arent living the life God gave us to live while we have it and we certainly aren't glorfying God with that life. we are hiding our light under a bushel, instead of bringing it out for all to see.

Nothing, not one thing you will do will add another day to your life, no amount of begging will get you an extra day to make it all right.... you have but one life, and your days are numbered.

The question is always, do we serve God, or do we serve self.

If we are Christian the answer is simple. If we are of this world the answer is quite simple.

The only question is how we as individuals answer it.

The invitation is given to unbelievers. Repentance is demanded from the unfaithful. Glory is reserved for the elect of God.

It's more than only action, but it IS action besides... as James said, I'll show you my faith through my works.

This life isn't the be all end all... but what we do and the choices we make during it will determine everything.

In general your approach is correct. We are to serve others, we are to let our light shine. My only caveat would be what if this pandemic is a call for repentance and the best way to handle it is to hunker down, sort of like a long Passover? Ask yourself how many deaths will it take to get most people really serious? 100k has not been enough. I am not sure 1 million will do it in America. Trump is resolute and suggests he would not shut down things, no matter what. Given that materialism is part of the issue with the churches sin in America, can we be certain this approach is right? Many are saying peace and safety, it is no big deal, yet the warnings continue with deaths piling up. Time will tell which approach is right. You can be Godly and hunker down. Plenty of online options to minister, pray and resources to learn more about God during this time. Depending on your age and what you think God is calling you to do, it is impossible to judge what is the best response. Remember too that those who circulate the most are more likely to be spreaders. In this view, and knowing that singing is known to aerosol the virus up to 20 feet, physical church attendance is not essential to me at this time.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Take a lesson from the Marines: improvise, adapt, and overcome.

 

[Hazelelponi]

My only caveat would be what if this pandemic is a call for repentance and the best way to handle it is to hunker down, sort of like a long Passover?

I think your correct in this assessment; it does seem to be a call to repentance, but skipping everything about Christianity isn't really repenting now is it?

If sin is the problem the church family is the most desperate need of the hour, not the least.

If we need more sin in our lives then telling people to sit home and binge watch t.v. is definitely the answer.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Depending on your age and what you think God is calling you to do, it is impossible to judge what is the best response.

I believe there can be a general response that is also responsive to the individual call too.

 

[charsan]

DONT GO TO CHURCH! It's EVIL I tell you! EVIL!

They are full of people who would dare to talk about FOLLOWING in the footsteps of CHRIST and this is evil piled upon evil I tell you.

They are PERPETUATING DEATH!

We should start killing them perhaps... just rid this world of this horror that has been perpetuated on the good citizens of this world, that teaches man that GOD is more IMPORTANT than even their own lives!

What HORROR! How can men worship government and see government as their savior if they already HAVE a Savior and have NO FEAR of death??????!!!!!?????

Let's make a thread in every social media site, ESPECIALLY those calling themselves CHRISTIAN and put the FEAR into them of temporal death to combat such NONSENSE!

(*sarcasm)

P.S. I just don't care if I'm banned since I'm not a good enough Christian to call myself a Christian since I believe our trust should be in GOD, and not in the fear of germs... so ban my death perpetuating self if you must!

Amen. It is Satan behind these Church bans and now Satan has many disciples too

The question is always, do we serve God, or do we serve self.

Many it can be seen now because of all this always served self

 

[Hazelelponi]

Amen. It is Satan behind these Church bans and now Satan has many disciples too

I got a little upset after being told encouraging church attendance was perpetuating death or some such language, coupled with the plethora of threads being created to warn people away from churches..

But yeah... it's a direct attack on Christianity itself as far as I can see.

 

[Richard T]

I believe there can be a general response that is also responsive to the individual call too.

What got my attention on this virus is that I believe it might be related to I Sam 2, the judgment of Eli's house. In that judgment, two main consequences were given. 1. that the elderly should die and 2. That the priesthood would be removed and given to another. What if this second part is taking place only that the change in priesthood is a change in churches? How many churches are preaching the heart and mind of God which is the standard according to this judgement? Given that this might be a shaking out of the Christian church, it seems very hard to suggest we all should attend church during this time.

 

[charsan]

I got a little upset after being told encouraging church attendance was perpetuating death or some such language, coupled with the plethora of threads being created to warn people away from churches..

But yeah... it's a direct attack on Christianity itself as far as I can see.

I am still really mad at those who are suppose to be Christians wanting all this to continue lock down to continue, those who label us who love freedom, liberty, personal responsibility, and God as death merchants because we understand and care about others, we know how detrimental this all is.

It is the ones who want no one to go to Church, wants no on to get proper healthcare, wants no one to go anywhere and live off the government forever, commit suicide because of extreme depression and anxiety those people are the death merchants not children of God

 

[Hazelelponi]

What got my attention on this virus is that I believe it might be related to I Sam 2, the judgment of Eli's house. In that judgment, two main consequences were given. 1. that the elderly should die and 2. That the priesthood would be removed and given to another. What if this second part is taking place only that the change in priesthood is a change in churches? How many churches are preaching the heart and mind of God which is the standard according to this judgement? Given that this might be a shaking out of the Christian church, it seems very hard to suggest we all should attend church during this time.

You may have a good point. I did finally decide this morning (after being unsure and waffling on it this last two weeks) that there's zero point in going back to the church I've been attending.

I'm not in agreement with everything they teach, but I've liked the atmosphere of the church a lot.

At least until I realized it was more than just different outlooks on some aspects of Scripture, it was nearly the whole and the atmosphere disappears in a heart beat.

So perhaps your right. But at the same time .. we need the body of Christ. Need them. We cant just be island's unto ourselves, or just our immediate family, God intended we have one another.

 

[RDKirk]

They stopped everything. They really did. They don't call, they stopped checking in on one another..

they Facebook some, mainly stupid yet funny posts. Nothing real.

It's not right. And every singl time Christians say beware, be afraid, seems to me it's just making it worse. They've stopped being Christian in practice.

Sure. Now it's online preaching. Okay. No comfort of one another... no meetings. Just here's your sermons.. here's your Sunday school (which I can live without as they are a different denomination than me I just enjoyed church there and it's close by) if we're on a list they'll pray.

It's death by government and fear.

Must be your church. Not mine.

In addition to my church, I've been a part of a workplace men's bible study for close to 20 years now. When we started, we were a bunch of guys who worked in the same building and did our bible study every Tuesday at lunch.

Since then, time and life have moved us physically apart. Some have found work with other companies, some have retired, some have moved to other states. But we still hold our Tuesday bible study with those who are distant joining in online. We know each other, we pray for each other, we love each otehr.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Must be your church. Not mine.

Okay, but do you think all this fear mongering is helpful for people? Fear 24/7, stay away from everyone, don't go out in public unless it's an emergency etc.

People here are taking this so seriously, for real. Watch t.v. that's not news you get commercial after commercial telling people not to go out and to be afraid, news is 24/7 how many people are dead today drama.

The people who want to live some without all the fear are being maligned as if we're monsters... and come here to a Christian forum and around every corner is fear church, fear singing praise to God, fear God's people because they are all carrying the COVID and just don't know it.

All this fear is unhealthy, to the point even on a Christian forum, saying just trust God is treated as some kind of evil being perpetrated on those who just want to live.

But we have to live! We cant just hide from life.. it's why people are fed up!

 

[TLK Valentine]

They stopped everything. They really did. They don't call, they stopped checking in on one another..

they Facebook some, mainly stupid yet funny posts. Nothing real.

Sounds like your congregation has a problem.

It's not right. And every singl time Christians say beware, be afraid, seems to me it's just making it worse. They've stopped being Christian in practice.

They've always been Christian in appearance...

Sure. Now it's online preaching. Okay. No comfort of one another... no meetings. Just here's your sermons.. here's your Sunday school (which I can live without as they are a different denomination than me I just enjoyed church there and it's close by) if we're on a list they'll pray.

Sounds like you were just there for the people, not for the God.

It's death by government and fear.

Whose death?