Causing Others to Stumble

[Hidden in Christ]

I am thinking of Corinthians, where Paul says that if something caused his brother to be offended or made weak spiritually, he would by no means do that, even though he could otherwise have a clear conscience in the matter.

One modern day situation that comes to mind is Christians attending social gatherings where drunkenness takes place. Some people say it's fine as long as they don't sin themselves. People on the other extreme say that a Christian should never have any contact with such sin under any circumstances. Here's what I think: unless you are going to that social gathering for the purpose of witnessing to people and proclaiming the name of Jesus, you should stay away. Some people say it's fine to just go and not say anything, but how can a Christian see such sin and not say something? If you don't say anything, it appears that you approve of what is going on there and that you don't care if those poor people remain in spiritual darkness. Also if you go to such an event, there is likely to be temptation there for you, and if you are not going to witness, you may be tempted above that you are able to bear, because you are inviting temptation.

Does anyone else share my concerns about this?

 

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Hidden in Christ,

If you are concerned for yourself, I would definately tell you to stay away from any place wherein you might have occasion to sin. I would also tell my children and anyone "who asks", NOT to partake in activities "of the world". HOWEVER, I am not to sit in judgment on ANYONE if they believe that God is allowing them to participate in a given activity such as a party or going to a bar. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts and He will do so in His own time and in His own way.

As for the world, we have no business judging THEM. They have already been judged by God and found wanting and that is why He tells us to "come out of the world".

I can imagine going to a wedding reception or "feast" and there being allowed there, drinks of anything from beer to wine to champagne and some, even many, really getting snockered. Am I not to go then? Let God be the judge. I do not believe that Jesus ever got high on alcohol, but I do know that He attended a wedding feast where there was PLENTY of good wine, and I do not believe it was just grape juice. BTW, I used to drink excessively to the point sometimes of falling down dead drunk. God, in His mercy, delivered me from that entirely.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[Sharky]

"As for the world, we have no business judging THEM. They have already been judged by God and found wanting and that is why He tells us to "come out of the world"."

That's right.

Our jobs as christians is to bring them to Christ so that they DON'T come under condemnation. They are potentially our brother's and sisters.

 

[bjh]

If we have no business judging the world, why does the Bible say that we will? (1 Cor 6:2).

Are we not to discern right and wrong? Eph 5:3-14

Wouldn't 2 Thessalonians 3:6-15 require "passing judgment" on somebody?

 

[Neederofrebuke]

Matt7:2
2.With what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged.

And just for the sake of clearification: It was grape juice that had just then been made by him.

 

[mixaleena]

I am thinking of Corinthians, where Paul says that if something caused his brother to be offended or made weak spiritually, he would by no means do that, even though he could otherwise have a clear conscience in the matter.

One modern day situation that comes to mind is Christians attending social gatherings where drunkenness takes place. Some people say it's fine as long as they don't sin themselves. People on the other extreme say that a Christian should never have any contact with such sin under any circumstances. Here's what I think: unless you are going to that social gathering for the purpose of witnessing to people and proclaiming the name of Jesus, you should stay away. Some people say it's fine to just go and not say anything, but how can a Christian see such sin and not say something? If you don't say anything, it appears that you approve of what is going on there and that you don't care if those poor people remain in spiritual darkness. Also if you go to such an event, there is likely to be temptation there for you, and if you are not going to witness, you may be tempted above that you are able to bear, because you are inviting temptation.

Does anyone else share my concerns about this?

I agree with you and of course, don't you think that we shouldn't even get out of bed in the morning if our purpose isn't to be a witness for Christ?

Greetings Hidden in Christ,

If you are concerned for yourself, I would definately tell you to stay away from any place wherein you might have occasion to sin. I would also tell my children and anyone "who asks", NOT to partake in activities "of the world". HOWEVER, I am not to sit in judgment on ANYONE if they believe that God is allowing them to participate in a given activity such as a party or going to a bar. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts and He will do so in His own time and in His own way.

As for the world, we have no business judging THEM. They have already been judged by God and found wanting and that is why He tells us to "come out of the world".

I can imagine going to a wedding reception or "feast" and there being allowed there, drinks of anything from beer to wine to champagne and some, even many, really getting snockered. Am I not to go then? Let God be the judge. I do not believe that Jesus ever got high on alcohol, but I do know that He attended a wedding feast where there was PLENTY of good wine, and I do not believe it was just grape juice. BTW, I used to drink excessively to the point sometimes of falling down dead drunk. God, in His mercy, delivered me from that entirely.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

Amen, on all counts.

Mixee

 

[bjh]

Matt7:2
2.With what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged.

And just for the sake of clearification: It was grape juice that had just then been made by him.

1) Let me see if I can paraphrase the warning of Matthew 7:2. "Don't condemn someone else for something you do yourself. For as you condemn others, you, likewise guilty as those you judge, you too will be condemned."

2) a) The Greek word methusthosin translated "drunk freely" or "well drunk" (depending on your version) in John 2:10 is too similar to "do not be drunk with wine" methuskesthe (Eph 5:18) for me to be sure that it was grape juice and not wine at the wedding in Cana.
b) Oinos is the Greek word used for wine in both passages. This would seem to say that it wasn't grape juice (for juice wouldn't fit the context of Eph 5:18).

== B. J. H. ==

 

[Neederofrebuke]

So, you believe that they had a different word for wine that had been aged or that had alcohal added to it then normal wine?
I could be mistaken...
I studied languages a little bit in high school, the subject fascinates me. Any more information on the subject of wine words in the bible would be awsome if you have time.

 

[Neederofrebuke]

Oh, my idea on that scripture is that all of us sin, and if we condemn others for sin, mistakes, or ignorance that they're all things that we have ourselves.

 

[Neederofrebuke]

So, you'd be right

 

[Nate Bailey]

If a non christian sees you buy beer and knows your a Christian and judges you for it you are a stumbling block for the gospel, is it wrong to drink.....No.......is it wrong to get drunk and become a fool.........Yes.........matter of fact Any thing that dosnt bring golry to GOD is sin.........just My two cents..........Nate

 

[Hidden in Christ]

About the judging thing, no we are not supposed to judge others when we do the same things. However, as Christians, I'd hope that none of us are getting drunk. I know it can happen, but I believe a true child of God will repent if he/she falls into such sin. Christians can be FREE from sin, and we don't have an excuse for ourselves. We are to be a light to the world, to show them what is right, all the while recognizing that if it weren't for the grace of God, we WOULD be doing the same things. Witnessing and reproving sin should be done with an unspeakably humble attitude. None of us deserve to have victory over sin, but God has provided that for us.

Another thing I want to add... why in the world would a true Christian enjoy being at a party where people willfully engage in such sin as drunkenness? If a Christian can find social enjoyment there, I believe something is seriously wrong with his spiritual life. I believe the ONLY thing that would draw a Christian to such gatherings is the purpose of witnessing. Now, a wedding where some people get drunk is one thing (though I'd never allow it at my wedding), but a holiday party or a fraternity party is something different. Can I get a witness?

 

[bjh]

So, you believe that they had a different word for wine that had been aged or that had alcohal added to it then normal wine?
I could be mistaken...
I studied languages a little bit in high school, the subject fascinates me. Any more information on the subject of wine words in the bible would be awsome if you have time.

What I said was that the same word for wine is used in both John 2 and Eph 5:18. If Paul says don't be drunk with wine, shouldn't we assume that it is possible to do so? Let me rephrase the question. Would Paul bother with saying, "Don't be drunk with grape juice?" I don't think he would.

Instead the word translated "wine" in our Bibles is the same in Eph 5:18 and in John 2. In other words, if it was wine, or to be crude "drunk-making" wine (if one drank enough, that is) in Eph 5:18, then it was "drunk-making" wine that Jesus made in John 2 (and not grape juice).

If you're interested in Bible languages, pick up a copy of Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words. It takes english words and matches them with the Greek possibilities. (e.g., "Wine" comes up with "oinos" and "gleukos")

== B. J. H. ==