Cause & Effect?

[JGG]

That was my point.



That's the general idea of a bank.



That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.



Also diverting away from the point.

Okay, here's my point: If someone says they're a bank owner, then they can be a bank owner. I'm not giving a bank owner my money because I simply never have. Generally, if someone works behind a counter at the bank, or has a desk at the investment firm I go to, I deal with them.

Secondly, why would I give Christians anything? If someone claims to be Christian, I've learned to stay away from such people, regardless of whether they live up to your lofty Christian Criteria (tm), or not (which it seems to me you have yet to actually define).

 

[david_x]

I myself am bisexual, so are you saying that I should be kept from attending any sort of church at all just because of the way I was born? (And yes, I was born this way. I can tell you from first-hand experience that being bisexual is not a choice.)

Idc if you go to Church, you just can't join if you have an active relationship with a woman. As I said, I have also struggled with this. I know it is not a choice about who we are attracted to, but looking is a choice. Training yourself to be less and less attracted is very possible, as I have done it and know of others who have done it.

Also, what gives you the authority to say which denominations of Christianity are right and wrong? Last time I checked, you were just as much of a flawed, sinful person as a Mormon is, so I don't see why you should be able to say that the Mormon is wrong for believing what they do.

Not my authority, I am relaying information the Church has agreed upon. All Christian Churches agree upon the Nicaean creed.

 

[david_x]

Yes, your branch of Christianity is monotheistic. Theirs isn´t.

Remember that point.

Other Christians? I understood that you were saying they weren´t Christians themselves.

Their words, not mine.

Ah, so excluding other self-proclaiming Christians from the universal Church counts against someone.
The irony.

This point follows the first one, can't use it separately.

Now back to the first point. The things that all Christian Churches agree on includes the monotheism, separating it from Christianity is not possible. As C.S.Lewis described it is the "central dogma" of Christianity.

 

[david_x]

Please don't change the topic. I was talking about how you want to exclude people from the church. I don't see how that has anything to do with what people are going to say about the church.

You're talking about letting people in, that roll the name of God through the mud and then put it in front of the world to make a laughing stock of it. Does that sound good to you?

 

[david_x]

Okay, here's my point: If someone says they're a bank owner, then they can be a bank owner. I'm not giving a bank owner my money because I simply never have. Generally, if someone works behind a counter at the bank, or has a desk at the investment firm I go to, I deal with them.

That's mostly a misunderstanding of the example I think... You see when I say "giving money to the bank owner" i don't literally mean that you give the green directly to him, that's not how banks work. What I meant is that he ends up with the money so in a way you are giving you money to him.

Additionally, no gets to be a bank owner by saying they are a bank owner. There are definitive requirements to be carried out. Law regulates how a bank can operate, how much money they need to have on hand, etc.

Secondly, why would I give Christians anything? If someone claims to be Christian, I've learned to stay away from such people, regardless of whether they live up to your lofty Christian Criteria (tm), or not (which it seems to me you have yet to actually define).

I don't think that many people that meet my "lofty criteria" (lul) will claim to be Christian outright. Christianity is not outspoken in nature, unless something is really wrong/right. (There are times when it is called for, but Christians are nothing to be afraid of I assure you.) It is the wicked people among them that lead both Christians and non-Christians further from the truth.

 

[HannahBanana]

You're talking about letting people in, that roll the name of God through the mud and then put it in front of the world to make a laughing stock of it. Does that sound good to you?

Since when do Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, or GLBT people do anything close to that?

 

[HannahBanana]

Idc if you go to Church, you just can't join if you have an active relationship with a woman. As I said, I have also struggled with this. I know it is not a choice about who we are attracted to, but looking is a choice. Training yourself to be less and less attracted is very possible, as I have done it and know of others who have done it.

Everyone struggles with some sort of sin, even you. Some people struggle with greed, others struggle with gluttony, and you can bet that there are people out there who struggle with hatred, laziness, lying, cussing, taking God's name in vain, and just about everything else that God forbids. So why pick on GLBT people in particular, when struggling with sin is a problem that isn't specifically limited to them?

Not my authority, I am relaying information the Church has agreed upon. All Christian Churches agree upon the Nicaean creed.

And is it a law that all Christian churches must agree upon the Nicene Creed? If not, then why are you using that particular creed as a yardstick to determine who should be excluded from Christianity?

 

[MoonLancer]

You're talking about letting people in, that roll the name of God through the mud and then put it in front of the world to make a laughing stock of it. Does that sound good to you?

Are you talking about Creationists?

 

[JGG]

That's mostly a misunderstanding of the example I think... You see when I say "giving money to the bank owner" i don't literally mean that you give the green directly to him, that's not how banks work. What I meant is that he ends up with the money so in a way you are giving you money to him.

Okay, but not because he said "I'm a bank owner, give me your money."

I don't think that many people that meet my "lofty criteria" (lul) will claim to be Christian outright. Christianity is not outspoken in nature, unless something is really wrong/right.

I'm sorry, what?! Christianity is not Outspoken? Where exactly are you from? I'm from rather secular Toronto, and I have prosletyzers harrass me on the street on just about a monthly basis. Nevermind examples like Pat Robertson and Friends, Jack Chick, Jerry Falwell, Ted Haggard, Benny Hinn, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Alan Keyes, Pat Buchannon, Sarah Palin, Judge Roy Moore and his Ten Commandments movement, The Way of the Master, the Christian Party of America, anti-abortionists, anti-gays, anti-Harry Potter-ites, the Moral Majority Movement, the Battlecry Movement, the Promisekeepers, the Convention of Southern Baptists, the Catholic Church, NARTH and such, Tea Partyers, birthers, Young Earth Creationists, The Flat Earth Society, The Army of God, God's Warriors, Christian Reconstructionists, the Westboro Baptists, the KKK, and Fox News (just off the top of my head).

(There are times when it is called for, but Christians are nothing to be afraid of I assure you.)

I suspect our experiences differ a fair bit.

It is the wicked people among them that lead both Christians and non-Christians further from the truth.

Uh-huh.

 

[david_x]

Everyone struggles with some sort of sin, even you. Some people struggle with greed, others struggle with gluttony, and you can bet that there are people out there who struggle with hatred, laziness, lying, cussing, taking God's name in vain, and just about everything else that God forbids. So why pick on GLBT people in particular, when struggling with sin is a problem that isn't specifically limited to them?

Like anyone that joins the Church, as long as they are repentant it is fine. However there are many that don't see it as a sin and simply want to continue with their sin, so they need to be excluded.

And is it a law that all Christian churches must agree upon the Nicene Creed? If not, then why are you using that particular creed as a yardstick to determine who should be excluded from Christianity?

Law? Laws do not apply to the Christian Church. This creed is a yardstick to see if they are a part of the Church, that is why it was created and exists.

 

[david_x]

Okay, but not because he said "I'm a bank owner, give me your money."

...

I'm sorry, what?! Christianity is not Outspoken? Where exactly are you from? I'm from rather secular Toronto, and I have prosletyzers harrass me on the street on just about a monthly basis. Nevermind examples like Pat Robertson and Friends, Jack Chick, Jerry Falwell, Ted Haggard, Benny Hinn, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Alan Keyes, Pat Buchannon, Sarah Palin, Judge Roy Moore and his Ten Commandments movement, The Way of the Master, the Christian Party of America, anti-abortionists, anti-gays, anti-Harry Potter-ites, the Moral Majority Movement, the Battlecry Movement, the Promisekeepers, the Convention of Southern Baptists, the Catholic Church, NARTH and such, Tea Partyers, birthers, Young Earth Creationists, The Flat Earth Society, The Army of God, God's Warriors, Christian Reconstructionists, the Westboro Baptists, the KKK, and Fox News (just off the top of my head).

For one thing those are conservatives for the most part. Have you ever even known someone personally or are you just being prejudice?

(Also anyone with intelligence is anti-Harry Potter, those books made an entire generation dumber. lul)

 

[HannahBanana]

Like anyone that joins the Church, as long as they are repentant it is fine. However there are many that don't see it as a sin and simply want to continue with their sin, so they need to be excluded.

How would you tell whether or not people were truly repentant? Would you give them a lie detector test?

Also, what about the sins that you yourself aren't repentant of? Or do you really think that you're truly repentant of every single one of the hundreds of sins mentioned in the Bible?

Law? Laws do not apply to the Christian Church. This creed is a yardstick to see if they are a part of the Church, that is why it was created and exists.

Since when do 100% of Christians use that creed as a yardstick to determine who they should exclude from the Church?

 

[david_x]

How would you tell whether or not people were truly repentant? Would you give them a lie detector test?

No, I just tend to believe people when they say they are sorry until there is evidence to the contrary.

Also, what about the sins that you yourself aren't repentant of? Or do you really think that you're truly repentant of every single one of the hundreds of sins mentioned in the Bible?

I am truly sorry for any sin that I have ever committed.

Since when do 100% of Christians use that creed as a yardstick to determine who they should exclude from the Church?

Christians hold all of the ideas in the creed as obvious and undeniable.

 

[HannahBanana]

No, I just tend to believe people when they say they are sorry until there is evidence to the contrary.

How would you know if there was evidence to the contrary if you were just seeing them at church, though? Or would you spy on them in their day to day life to see if they were lying about being sorry?

I am truly sorry for any sin that I have ever committed.

Really? You don't enjoy doing anything that's sinful? You won't gorge on food when Thanksgiving comes? You won't lie around being lazy after Thanksgiving dinner is over? You won't be greedy in terms of what you want for Christmas?

Christians hold all of the ideas in the creed as obvious and undeniable.

Where's your proof that 100% of Christians do that?

 

[david_x]

How would you know if there was evidence to the contrary if you were just seeing them at church, though? Or would you spy on them in their day to day life to see if they were lying about being sorry?

We are a Church, we don't just meet on Sunday. Also we have intense conversations like that kind of stuff.

Also, evidence presents itself eventually. Weather through the holy spirit or gossip the truth always comes out.

Really? You don't enjoy doing anything that's sinful? You won't gorge on food when Thanksgiving comes? You won't lie around being lazy after Thanksgiving dinner is over? You won't be greedy in terms of what you want for Christmas?

I am not saying that I will never fail. I'm saying then when I do I will regret it and repent and i'll admit that it was wrong.

Where's your proof that 100% of Christians do that?

It's the definition...

 

[HannahBanana]

We are a Church, we don't just meet on Sunday. Also we have intense conversations like that kind of stuff.

Also, evidence presents itself eventually. Weather through the holy spirit or gossip the truth always comes out.

Gossiping is a sin. Are you promoting that sin?

And people would most likely know better than to show evidence that they're not sorry for sinning. So yes, most people would get away with lying to you.

I am not saying that I will never fail. I'm saying then when I do I will regret it and repent and i'll admit that it was wrong.

Christians are supposed to try not to sin. So do you admit that you have trouble with keeping yourself from sinning, just like a homosexual does?

It's the definition...

According to which dictionary?

 

[david_x]

Gossiping is a sin. Are you promoting that sin?

And people would most likely know better than to show evidence that they're not sorry for sinning. So yes, most people would get away with lying to you.

Lul, change subject much?

I'm not promoting gossip...

People don't have to show, who can hide from the eye of God?

Christians are supposed to try not to sin. So do you admit that you have trouble with keeping yourself from sinning, just like a homosexual does?

Yes, like I said I'm homosexual.

According to which dictionary?

...

 

[HannahBanana]

Lul, change subject much?

I'm not promoting gossip...

People don't have to show, who can hide from the eye of God?

You're talking about how you can tell whether or not the people in church are actively sinning. Therefore, God has nothing to do with this, unless you're trying to say that you yourself are God.

And no, I wasn't changing the subject at all. You're the one who mentioned gossiping in the first place.

And if you realize that gossiping is sinful, then why did you bring it up?

Yes, like I said I'm homosexual.

Stop being a smart aleck and actually respond to the question I asked you.

...

Since when is "..." a dictionary?

 

[david_x]

You're talking about how you can tell whether or not the people in church are actively sinning. Therefore, God has nothing to do with this, unless you're trying to say that you yourself are God.

If everyone is in a relationship with God, then i'm pretty sure it has something to do with God. What i'm saying is that people can try to hide what they're doing, but it is physically, mentally, and spiritually impossible. (Physically your face twitches uncontrollably, etc. Mentally you are distracted or guilty, etc. Spiritually God knows and can tell other believers so they can confront you about it.)

And no, I wasn't changing the subject at all. You're the one who mentioned gossiping in the first place.

I mentioned it in passing, not as something to debate.

And if you realize that gossiping is sinful, then why did you bring it up?

Just because something is sinful doesn't make it wrong to talk about, we talk about premarital sex all the time.

Stop being a smart aleck and actually respond to the question I asked you.

I said yes, how is that not a response?

Since when is "..." a dictionary?[/QUOTE]

I gave up because your question showed an obvious lack of any understanding to what I was saying.

 

[HannahBanana]

If everyone is in a relationship with God, then i'm pretty sure it has something to do with God. What i'm saying is that people can try to hide what they're doing, but it is physically, mentally, and spiritually impossible. (Physically your face twitches uncontrollably, etc. Mentally you are distracted or guilty, etc. Spiritually God knows and can tell other believers so they can confront you about it.)

Some people are really good at hiding their guilt, and some people don't feel guilty at all for sinning. So how would you know whether or not those types of people were lying to you about feeling sorry for sinning?

I mentioned it in passing, not as something to debate.

Fine. I'll drop it then.

I said yes, how is that not a response?

So you were honestly admitting that you yourself are a homosexual?

I gave up because your question showed an obvious lack of any understanding to what I was saying.

I understood what you were saying completely. You were trying to say that the Nicene Creed is understood by the Church to be the determining factor in whether or not someone is actually a Christian. I then asked you for proof that that was true, and you replied with "it's the definition." When I asked you what dictionary that definition was from, you replied with "..." So tell me, what exactly am I not understanding?