Actually, your sins are forgiven in this life, when you confess them, repent, and ask for forgiveness.The forgiveness of our sins is for after death.
Agreed.When we sin, we choose to suffer, in this life.
AgreedHowever, the forgiveness from our sins, that Christ gives, is eternal life.
No, sorry. The Bible does not state this.There is no punishment after forgiveness as our sins are washed away.
Absolutely, but this does not rule out purgatory.All of them are remembered not.
Hebrews 8:12King James Version (KJV)
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
It's not a place but a state of being. Nobody knows, we can only speculate on what it's like. There is hope there; there is no hope in hell.
25 Bible Passages Indicating or Suggesting Purgatory
Jesus has a physical body so heaven must be a place. Hell is the state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed. Perhaps it is a place too. We can only think in terms of time and space and in eternity time and space does not exist. Your question is a metaphysical one and deserves a thread of it's own.Do you believe heaven and hell are places?
Both. She was conceived without original sin by God's special intervention; not by any power of her own, and not by her parents.I have a few questions for the Catholic members about Mary.
1. Does the immaculate conception mean that Mary never sinned in her whole life or just that she was born without the stain of original sin?
I don't know what you mean by "perfect spiritual awareness". She nursed Him, changed His dirty diapers, taught Him how to walk, probably taught Him how to read, pulled slivers from His hands, and took Him to Jerusalem for Passovers. She did all the ordinary things that mothers do.2. What does it mean for Mary if she was sinless? Does it mean she was not carnal minded but only spiritually minded? Does it mean she had perfect spiritual awareness?
Jesus has a physical body so heaven must be a place. Hell is the state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed. Perhaps it is a place too. We can only think in terms of time and space and in eternity time and space does not exist. Your question is a metaphysical one and deserves a thread of it's own.
Both. She was conceived without original sin by God's special intervention; not by any power of her own, and not by her parents
I don't know what you mean by "perfect spiritual awareness". She nursed Him, changed His dirty diapers, taught Him how to walk, probably taught Him how to read, pulled slivers from His hands, and took Him to Jerusalem for Passovers. She did all the ordinary things that mothers do.
Natural Concupiscence is a desire to be warm when one is cold, or to drink when one is thirsty. Corrupted Concupiscence is what inclines us to sin.
Mary would have experienced pure, natural concupiscence in a way that God originally intended for all of us.
Mary: The Blessed Virgin (Index Page)
Well, of course. What good is a religion if you're going to be limited by the Word of God.
Isn't evangelizing about leading people to Christ?
Anyway, you probably will have to have something ready when the person you're "evangelizing" asks why he should believe all those stories about Marian apparitions, her bodily assumption, and so on. And it can't just be a recitation of the stories themselves or that old standby, "the church says so."
I didn't say it wasn't a place. I said it was a state of being. There is nothing in scripture that calls it a place.I'm not sure how you know time and space won't exist in eternity (I've heard some person say people will always exist in time) but if you say that heaven is a real place, then hell and purgatory must then be real places too.
For example, Catholics like to use Revelation 21:27 "Nothing impure will ever enter it" to say impure souls cannot enter heaven.
That means there is somewhere where the soul isn't and somewhere where it is. The soul has to exist somewhere. This "somewhere" can be considered a place. Even your picture demonstrates this.
And if purgatory isn't a place then I guess we can dismiss the visions of Catholic saints that describe purgatory as a place.
Mark 6 has nothing to do with bread, and Mark 8 is about the Feeding of the Multitude, I believe it is a foreshadow of Jesus' power to multiply His Body and Blood throughout time.For example in Mark 6 and Mark 8 the disciples did not understand the meaning of the bread. Would Mary have understood the meaning (without being told) if she had been there? Would Mary have understood the parables that others didn't? That's what I mean by perfect spiritual awareness.
It requires supernatural faith to accept the Real and Substantial Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, not logic.So I assume Corrupted Concupiscence falls under carnal minded, since "the carnal mind is enmity against God" Romans 8:7 (kjv) and Natural Concupiscence doesn't, since we need it to survive.
This is a quote from this page: What Does It Mean To Be A Carnal Christian?
"(1 Corinthians 3:1-5) In this passage, Paul had just spoken about how unsaved people could not understand the Bible, nor make sound decisions because they did not have the wisdom of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2). Paul called the unsaved man the natural man. Paul continued in 1 Corinthians 3 by saying that he could not speak spiritual things to these Christians because they were carnal in their thinking."
It could be. Jesus scolded Peter for his lack of understanding, not his teaching, for Peter wasn't teaching anything. Peter knew the political climate in Jerusalem and was afraid for Jesus' life. That's why he didn't want Him to go. Then Jesus said what?This quote seems to be saying to be carnal minded isn't just to have sinful carnal desires but to also not understand spiritual things. So is Matthew 16:22-23 an example of Peter being carnal minded?
Actually, your sins are forgiven in this life, when you confess them, repent, and ask for forgiveness.
No, sorry. The Bible does not state this.
Absolutely, but this does not rule out purgatory.
but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.Agreed, however, punishment for those who are unforgiven, unrepentant and non believing is, obviously, not in this time on earth. It comes in the life or existence after this one.
This is why I said what I did.
On sins being washed away, including the one I quoted earlier, there are these verses. They may not always use the word "washed" but the term or concept of being washed or cleansed is very apparent.
1 John 1:7
Washing of regeneration is BAPTISM, the removal of original sin, what we inherited from Adam. The doctrine of original sin was taught by the reformers but rejected by many Protestant today because it is fashionable.Titus 3:5
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
That''s very true. The Greek root word for clean is prune/cleanse. But it doesn't mean we can't choose to be unclean, or we would have no free will. Permanent justification was invented by John Calvin, and it's not in the Bible.
Again, this is about baptism.1 Corinthians 6:11
Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
That's not how it works, you are inserting a straw man fallacy.Well, I have not read one thing in the bible or even, specifically, in what Jesus taught, that would indicate that:
1/ I ever have to pay or suffer for my sins as He "paid the full price"
You are completely missing the point. Purgatory is not a second chance and nobody said anything about earning their way into paradise. And BTW, paradise is not heaven.2/ Anyone gets a second chance or earns their way into paradise.
Earning salvation is a heresy called Pelagianism, condemned by the Church 1000 years before the first Protestant was born, yet this myth won't go away.3/ That there is a third road along with the wide road to destruction and the narrow road that few find, that leads to eternal life.
4/That there is anything that I, myself, can do in order to earn salvation. If there was, Christ's suffering, death and resurrection, would have been in vane.
but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
Out of context.
5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light and in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him while we are walking in darkness, we lie and do not do what is true; 7 but if we walk in the light as he himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he who is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light and in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him while we are walking in darkness, we lie and do not do what is true; 7 but if we walk in the light as he himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he who is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Washing of regeneration is BAPTISM, the removal of original sin, what we inherited from Adam. The doctrine of original sin was taught by the reformers but rejected by many Protestant today because it is fashionable.
That''s very true. The Greek root word for clean is prune/cleanse. But it doesn't mean we can't choose to be unclean, or we would have no free will. Permanent justification was invented by John Calvin, and it's not in the Bible.
Again, this is about baptism.
That's not how it works, you are inserting a straw man fallacy.
You are completely missing the point. Purgatory is not a second chance and nobody said anything about earning their way into paradise. And BTW, paradise is not heaven.
Earning salvation is a heresy called Pelagianism, condemned by the Church 1000 years before the first Protestant was born, yet this myth won't go away.
Don't you believe the Holy Spirit befriends every sincere individual Christian ? Indeed, we all need the aid of the Holy Spirit to rightly interpret scripture.
but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
Out of context.
5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light and in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him while we are walking in darkness, we lie and do not do what is true; 7 but if we walk in the light as he himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he who is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light and in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him while we are walking in darkness, we lie and do not do what is true; 7 but if we walk in the light as he himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he who is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Washing of regeneration is BAPTISM, the removal of original sin, what we inherited from Adam. The doctrine of original sin was taught by the reformers but rejected by many Protestant today because it is fashionable.
That''s very true. The Greek root word for clean is prune/cleanse. But it doesn't mean we can't choose to be unclean, or we would have no free will. Permanent justification was invented by John Calvin, and it's not in the Bible.
Again, this is about baptism.
That's not how it works, you are inserting a straw man fallacy.
You are completely missing the point. Purgatory is not a second chance and nobody said anything about earning their way into paradise. And BTW, paradise is not heaven.
Earning salvation is a heresy called Pelagianism, condemned by the Church 1000 years before the first Protestant was born, yet this myth won't go away.
first of all, the Catholic needs to learn good basic skills of Bible interpretation. I would recommend a book such as Making Senses Out of Scripture: Reading the Bible As the First Christians Did, by Mark Shea.Actually, Catholics do not need the direct presence of the Holy Spirit to interpret scripture. The Catholic Church has interpreted scripture such that any individual interpretation is either superfluous or condemned if it contradicts the interpretation of the Catholic Church.
Acts 22:16Again, baptism does not cleanse me of my sin.
Titus 3Christ did that on the cross and I was washed clean by His blood
Were you saved before or after you were able to accept his gift?when I accepted His gift of salvation.
But what if your church's dogma stands in opposition to the clear word of scripture, in context in the passage and in agreement with the entire witness of scripture?A) “You can’t interpret Scripture on your own”
(as Protestant critics often caricature our approach). Rather, it is saying:
B) “don’t become so independent that you interpret in a way that is contrary to Church dogma.”
1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.If so, what if I died after I was saved yet before I was baptized.
1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God's forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ's kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.Further still, what of the sins I commit after my baptism in the years before I die?
The Bible does not state this. This is a tradition of men.Baptism is a public profession of Faith in Christ. It is a symbol of our dying as an old creature and rebirth as a child of God.
Ah, but you contradict yourself. Above you stated that you must accept His gift of salvation. If you reject His gift of salvation, are you saved?Actually, that's exactly how it works. I can not do one thing, during this life, or after, that would bring me one step closer to the righteousness necessary for my salvation.
I am not saved by my works here on earth.
I am not saved by hardship or pain or punishment
I am only saved by Christs death on the cross and resurrection. Which He did for me to save me from my sins.
Here is a tip. If you desire to convince someone that he is wrong, or to otherwise have a productive discussion, it would benefit you to learn what the other person actually believes, and have a discussion concerning that.Sure it is. You die but you have some unforgiven sins or unrighteousness that needs to be punished. So, you spend some time in torment until God thinks you have learned your lesson or suffered enough....Totally unbiblical and totally insults what Christ did on the cross.
I'll ignore the whole argument of Paradise, heaven etc.... Where did Christ say that the thief on the cross would be with Him "that day"... Totally useless argument.
Well, it might go away if you would stop telling people that there is a place you may go until you have suffered enough to get into heaven.
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