Catholics on, Interpreting the Bible

[2 King]

In the Bible and in those who are filled with Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit bears witness of Jesus. Jesus said His sheep follow HIM and listen to HIS voice... none other. Whose voice have you been listening too? Jesus points to Himself, right? you must study the Bible to find His voice, right? It IS His word, right? now, which dominates your interpretation? The Catholic Church over it or IT over the Catholic Church? Who's voice do you listen to?

 

[tadoflamb]

Where is Jesus' voice found?

I hear the voice of Christ most clearly in the life of the Catholic Church.

Daily mass, serving the poor, community activities......that sort of stuff.

 

[fated]

Stick to the Bible. Listen...Jesus said that His sheep hear HIS voice and follow HIM, right?
The Bible is God's (Jesus') word, right? The Bible is God's (Jesus') word, right? Jesus said Christians hear his voice and follow HIM, right? Where is Jesus' voice found? Is it in sacred tradition? Is it in my words? Where is Jesus' voice found?

The study of Christian theology is one in which you learn who Jesus Christ is, one in which you learn and strive to re-present Jesus Christ. When you have seen Christ many times, you should learn to recognize Him. The reality is that you will very often recognize Him, you will recognize Him in many people who you see, but also, there are those who represent Him more and better than others, and it is these who you have as teachers... It is these who are the ultimate judges, closest in fidelity to the Word...

It is this Fidelity to the Word, which we are called to re-present...

Who is your Papa?


Not these? How about this one?

Mother Teresa

 

[Fixation On God]

The Holy Spirit bears witness of Jesus. Jesus said His sheep follow HIM and listen to HIS voice... none other. Whose voice have you been listening too?

I've been listening to God's voice.

Jesus points to Himself, right?

you'd be a fool to think otherwise

you must study the Bible to find His voice, right?It IS His word, right?

No doubt, I read it almost everyday

now, which dominates your interpretation? The Catholic Church over it or IT over the Catholic Church?Who's voice do you listen to?

None, I do not find any disagreement between the Bible and the church. And that is my problem. You find it. I do not. You read the Bible I read the Bible. Who is right?

 

[MamaZ]

I hear the voice of Christ most clearly in the life of the Catholic Church.

Daily mass, serving the poor, community activities......that sort of stuff.

I hear the voice of the shepherd in the words that He speaks which we have written down for record and it is from hearing these words that we do these words that are spoken. Even though they are in written form they speak clearly to His sheep.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I've been listening to God's voice.

you'd be a fool to think otherwise

No doubt, I read it almost everyday

None, I do not find any disagreement between the Bible and the church. And that is my problem. You find it. I do not. You read the Bible I read the Bible. Who is right?

Greetings. What Denomination are you if I may ask

 

[MamaZ]

I don't hear in the scriptures many things that the CC believes and preaches..

 

[fated]

I don't hear in the scriptures many things that the CC believes and preaches..

There are numerous websites and books on this topic, which shows the Biblical basis which is inter-laced with the Tradition. The Papacy draws from the Council of Jerusalem, as presented in the Act of the Apostle, for instance.

Which is why we seek to find out who has the Truth, that is, who it is who has Fidelity to the Word, who is Jesus Christ.

 

[MamaZ]

There are numerous websites and books on this topic, which shows the Biblical basis which is inter-laced with the Tradition. The Papacy draws from the Council of Jerusalem, as presented in the Act of the Apostle, for instance.

Which is why we seek to find out who has the Truth, that is, who it is who has Fidelity to the Word, who is Jesus Christ.

Websites? Books? Why would we need all of these when we have the very words of God? Why would the Papacy draw from the counsel of Jerusalem?

 

[Trento]

Stick to the Bible. Listen...Jesus said that His sheep hear HIS voice and follow HIM, right?
The Bible is God's (Jesus') word, right? The Bible is God's (Jesus') word, right? Jesus said Christians hear his voice and follow HIM, right? Where is Jesus' voice found? Is it in sacred tradition? Is it in my words? Where is Jesus' voice found?

For the typical Christian, Paul made it clear where doctrinal authority is found:

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

If ever there were a place where the bible should have been named as the highest or final authority for the average saint to prevail against "winds of doctrine", it is in the above passage. But instead all we see mentioned is the leadership of the Church rather than the bible.

It is the Church, not the bible, that is called "the pillar and foundation of Truth" (1st Tim 3:15). I've seen many of my fellow Christians water this down until it was virtually meaningless. I don't subscribe to such commentaries.

Martin Luther spoke of those who had swallowed the Holy Spirit feathers and all. He saw the writing on the wall think of how distressed he would be today if he saw the train wreck he caused.

“There is no smearer;” [Luther] said, “but when he has heard a sermon or can read a chapter in German, makes a doctor of himself and crowns his ass and convinces himself that he knows everything better than all who teach him:” (Walch V. 1652). “When we have heard or learned a few things about Holy Scripture, we think we are already doctors and have swallowed the Holy Ghost, feathers and all:’ (Walch V. 472). . . . “This one;’ he says, “will not hear of Baptism, that one denies the Sacrament, another puts a world between this and the last day: some teach that Christ is not God, some say this, some say that: there are about as many sects and creeds as there are heads. No yokel is so rude but when he has dreams and fancies, he thinks himself inspired by the Holy Ghost and must be a prophet.Wette III, 61). Seeing his power and authority to control the masses gone, he now in a spirit of disappointment sarcastically remarks: “Noblemen, townsmen, peasants all classes understand the Evangelium better than I or St. Paul; they are now wise andthink themselves more learned than all the ministers.” (Walch XIV, 1360). Thus Luther himself testifies to the utter failure of the cardinal principle of his so-called Reformation

(Msgr. Patrick F. O’Hare. The Facts About Luther [Tan Books & Publishers; (Rep) edition (June 1987)]), pgs. 206-209.

 

[fated]

Websites? Books? Why would we need all of these when we have the very words of God? Why would the Papacy draw from the counsel of Jerusalem?

Come, Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of thy Faithful; and enkindle in them the fire of Thy love. Send forth Thy Spirit and they shall be created, and thou shalt renew the face of the earth.

Luke 22:

41 After withdrawing about a stone's throw from them and kneeling, he prayed,
42 saying, "Father, if you are willing, take this cup away from me; still, not my will but yours be done."

Matthew 5:

1 1 When he saw the crowds, 2 he went up the mountain, and after he had sat down, his disciples came to him.
2 He began to teach them, saying:
3 3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, 4 for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 5 Blessed are they who mourn, for they will be comforted.
5 6 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the land.
6 Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness, 7 for they will be satisfied.
7 Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
8 8 Blessed are the clean of heart, for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, 9 for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you (falsely) because of me.
12 10 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven. Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

John 17:

1 1 2 When Jesus had said this, he raised his eyes to heaven and said, "Father, the hour has come. Give glory to your son, so that your son may glorify you,
2 3 just as you gave him authority over all people, so that he may give eternal life to all you gave him.
3 4 Now this is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
4 I glorified you on earth by accomplishing the work that you gave me to do.
5 Now glorify me, Father, with you, with the glory that I had with you before the world began.
6 "I revealed your name 5 to those whom you gave me out of the world. They belonged to you, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word.
7 Now they know that everything you gave me is from you,
8 because the words you gave to me I have given to them, and they accepted them and truly understood that I came from you, and they have believed that you sent me.
9 I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for the ones you have given me, because they are yours,
10 and everything of mine is yours and everything of yours is mine, and I have been glorified in them.
11 And now I will no longer be in the world, but they are in the world, while I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are.
12 When I was with them I protected them in your name that you gave me, and I guarded them, and none of them was lost except the son of destruction, in order that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 But now I am coming to you. I speak this in the world so that they may share my joy completely.
14 I gave them your word, and the world hated them, because they do not belong to the world any more than I belong to the world.
15 6 I do not ask that you take them out of the world but that you keep them from the evil one.
16 They do not belong to the world any more than I belong to the world.
17 Consecrate them in the truth. Your word is truth.
18 As you sent me into the world, so I sent them into the world.
19 And I consecrate myself for them, so that they also may be consecrated in truth.
20 "I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,
21 so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.
22 And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one,
23 I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me.
24 Father, they are your gift to me. I wish that where I am 7 they also may be with me, that they may see my glory that you gave me, because you loved me before the foundation of the world.
25 Righteous Father, the world also does not know you, but I know you, and they know that you sent me.
26 I made known to them your name and I will make it known, 8 that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in them."

Acts 15:

7 4 After much debate had taken place, Peter got up and said to them, "My brothers, you are well aware that from early days God made his choice among you that through my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.
8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness by granting them the holy Spirit just as he did us.
9 He made no distinction between us and them, for by faith he purified their hearts.
10 Why, then, are you now putting God to the test by placing on the shoulders of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear?
11 On the contrary, we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they." 5
12 The whole assembly fell silent, and they listened while Paul and Barnabas described the signs and wonders God had worked among the Gentiles through them.
13 6 After they had fallen silent, James responded, "My brothers, listen to me.
14 Symeon 7 has described how God first concerned himself with acquiring from among the Gentiles a people for his name.
15 The words of the prophets agree with this, as is written:
16 'After this I shall return and rebuild the fallen hut of David; from its ruins I shall rebuild it and raise it up again,
17 so that the rest of humanity may seek out the Lord, even all the Gentiles on whom my name is invoked. Thus says the Lord who accomplishes these things,
18 known from of old.'
19 It is my judgment, therefore, that we ought to stop troubling the Gentiles who turn to God,

John 14:

5 Thomas said to him, "Master, we do not know where you are going; how can we know the way?"
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way and the truth 5 and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
7 If you know me, then you will also know my Father. 6 From now on you do know him and have seen him."
8 Philip said to him, "Master, show us the Father, 7 and that will be enough for us."
9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you for so long a time and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on my own. The Father who dwells in me is doing his works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else, believe because of the works themselves.
12 Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father.
13 And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Breathe into me, Holy Spirit, that my thoughts may all be holy. Move in me, Holy Spirit, that my work, too, may be holy. Attract my heart, Holy Spirit, that I may love only what is holy. Strengthen me, Holy Spirit, that I may defend all that is holy. Protect me, Holy Spirit, that I may always be holy. St. Augustine

(Listen to the Lord)
...


Now the 'apology:'
Church Father Ignatius (~AD 100)

The Epistle of Ignatius to the Romans

Greeting

Ignatius, who is also called Theophorus, to the Church which has obtained mercy, through the majesty of the Most High Father, and Jesus Christ, His only-begotten Son; the Church which is beloved and enlightened by the will of Him that wills all things which are according to the love of Jesus Christ our God, which also presides in the place of the region of the Romans, worthy of God, worthy of honour, worthy of the highest happiness, worthy of praise, worthy of obtaining her every desire, worthy of being deemed holy, and which presides over love, is named from Christ, and from the Father, which I also salute in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father: to those who are united, both according to the flesh and spirit, to every one of His commandments; who are filled inseparably with the grace of God, and are purified from every strange taint, [I wish] abundance of happiness unblameably, in Jesus Christ our God.

Pope Benedict XVI is the 266th pope. At times there were multiple popes, a problem that was largely solved... although in some very real ways the issue continues until today. There were also times were the Popes did not perform as they perhaps should have, but it is our belief that the Church's history is a history of Holiness, of Holy growth, and of progress... The Church is a might source of human progress throughout history.

And for this, Lord, we are thankful.

 

[2 King]

For the typical Christian, Paul made it clear where doctrinal authority is found:

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

He gave gifts to the five-fold ministry

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

In other words The building up this his body in faith, love, holiness.

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Basically that we'd reach unity in both an exact agreement in the Christian doctrine, and an experimental knowledge of Christ as the Son of God. So I understood this

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

"and carried about with every wind"
From without; when we are assaulted by others, who are unstable as the wind.

 

[MamaZ]

When one is born again the Holy Spirit indwells the believers life at all times.. For Christs righteousness is imputed to us. We are Holy :for where the Lord is is Holy Ground. Nothing we can do think or say to make us Holy.. Just the presence of the Lord in us as His very temple..

 

[PT Calvinist]

When one is born again the Holy Spirit indwells the believers life at all times.. For Christs righteousness is imputed to us. We are Holy :for where the Lord is is Holy Ground. Nothing we can do think or say to make us Holy.. Just the presence of the Lord in us as His very temple..

"Then you will begin to say, `We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets'; Luke 13:26

 

[Yarddog]

Our trust is in the written scriptures and the Holy Spirit whom reveals His word to us. For we know and understand that the scriptures are indeed breathed by God therefore we can trust in what the scriptures speak to us for They are the very words of God.

We believe the same thing.

 

[2 King]

We believe the same thing.

Really?

Purgatory, Pennacne, Praying to marry, Indulgences? are these in the Bible?

 

[Standing Up]

We believe the same thing.

Really?

Purgatory, Pennacne, Praying to marry, Indulgences? are these in the Bible?

Do as they say, not as they do, was the message 2,000 years ago.

 

[2 King]

Do as they say, not as they do, was the message 2,000 years ago.

noted.

 

[Yarddog]

Really?

Yep.

Purgatory,

Because you can't understand a teaching doesn't mean that it isn't present.

Pennacne,

What is that?

Praying to marry,

I remember that I asked God that I would "marry" when I was younger but I didn't realize that there was something wrong with it.

Indulgences? are these in the Bible?

The CC points to scripture to show their belief but that is another thread. But none of this contradicts what I said to MamaZ. She said:
"Our trust is in the written scriptures and the Holy Spirit whom reveals His word to us. For we know and understand that the scriptures are indeed breathed by God therefore we can trust in what the scriptures speak to us for They are the very words of God."

I repeat what I said:"We believe the same thing"

 

[Fixation On God]

Yep.

Because you can't understand a teaching doesn't mean that it isn't present.

What is that?

I remember that I asked God that I would "marry" when I was younger but I didn't realize that there was something wrong with it.

The CC points to scripture to show their belief but that is another thread. But none of this contradicts what I said to MamaZ. She said:
"Our trust is in the written scriptures and the Holy Spirit whom reveals His word to us. For we know and understand that the scriptures are indeed breathed by God therefore we can trust in what the scriptures speak to us for They are the very words of God."

I repeat what I said:"We believe the same thing"

ROFL!

I am part-time Catholic, I have to admit, this is pretty funny. God bles you