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I don't think it would be correct to say that the church had Orthodox roots, or origins, or that she represented an Anglicized version of the Church of Rome during or after the Reformation. However, it appears that there was an Orthodox influence in the British Isles in the first several years of the Christian era when, by comparison, there was no known interchange between Britain and the church at Rome.... An Anglicized version of the Church of Rome... She did not return to Her Orthodox Roots...
Arsenios
I am referring to plain Scripture which seems to have been edited out of your remembrance??I noticed that as well. I am thinking that he is speaking of The Recapitulation Theory.
The Latin Church was Orthodox for the first thousand years...I don't think it would be correct to say that the church had Orthodox roots, or origins, or that she represented an Anglicized version of the Church of Rome during or after the Reformation. However, it appears that there was an Orthodox influence in the British Isles in the first several years of the Christian era when, by comparison, there was no known interchange between Britain and the church at Rome.
I just got it from an Anglican convert to Orthodoxy who knows some history...Is that actually what is taught in Eastern Orthodox circles? It is quite amusing.
I think I outlined the history of the church in Britain and England in an earlier post. We can safely go back to the topic of this thread now.The Latin Church was Orthodox for the first thousand years...
Started out Apostolic, and came under Rome Who was the Western Church...
Arsenios
They were certainly Apostolic... And that means Orthodox, unless you have concluded that the Apostles were heterodox??I don't think it would be correct to say that the church had Orthodox roots, or origins
It looks like the friend was trying to be agreeable by creating an EO version of English history for use when speaking with EO Christians.That is what my friend tells me...
I am not much of a history buff of these times...
You're talking different churches, of course. But the conflicting interpretations of Scripture are not resolved by turning to something OTHER than the word of God, specifically the theories of men.
As for your second question, every church has some traditions, but most do not pretend that these are the equal of divine revelation and do not make doctrine out of them.
Once saved alway saved/can lose your salvation, Baptism ( regenerative ,symbolic ,baptism of the Holy Spirit ),Predestination, are important conflicting interpretations ( which also would affect ones understanding of salvation )
I agree that Scripture is not self-interpreting except that much of it is so point blank and straightforward that it doesn't require any interpreting.Who decides which is the correct interpretation of the word of God . The Word of God is not self interpreting .
Why is there no unified Catholic church either?Otherwise there would be one unified protestant church and no conflict amongst yourselves . Why didn't Martin Luther get it right the first time around .
I noticed that he several times worded that as "entry into" or "enters into," which I would interpret as something other than "equals salvation."
We have been saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved.I doubt that he or the Orthodox Church view salvation in the same light. For many, if not most, in that Church, salvation is the end result of a life of repentance, not a present reality.
I will run that by him...It looks like the friend was trying to be agreeable by creating an EO version of English history for use when speaking with EO Christians.
Me? Because I grew up in the church, it happened differently for me than for an adult convert. Basically I repeatedly accepted Jesus to the degree I could at the maturity level that I was at. At age three I loved Jesus and thought the church was a good place to be. At age seven I had an idea of what choosing wrong was, and that Jesus wanted me to choose right. The two paths in life. I wanted to be the way Jesus wanted me to be. So I responded to an altar call. When I was twelve, I "rededicated" my life to Christ, understanding that he had died for my sins, and that I needed to accept his grace by faith. When I was eighteen, the HS convicted me, and I understood that being a Christian meant more than just attending Church and praying and reading the Bible. It meant doing unto the least of these my brethren. I wanted to be God's fully without compromise. When I was 22, I realized that I needed to be obedient to God even when I didn't understand the reason why he asked something of me. So, even though I thought Baptism was a silly ritual, I was baptized. When I was 27, I realized that loving Christ meant loving His Church, and I became Catholic. For the remainder of my life, I have sought to examine my walk and my conscience, looking for ways I can draw closer to Christ and avail myself of his grace.The thought occurred to me that since you are so adamantly against "A Sinners Prayer", how then did you get saved my dear???
Romans 10:9 says.......
"If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is LORD," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved".
I doubt that he or the Orthodox Church view salvation in the same light. For many, if not most, in that Church, salvation is the end result of a life of repentance, not a present reality.
Except the bible does not say thatWe can also say that the Bible tells us in 1 John 5:11-12.......
"And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has this eternal life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have this eternal life."
John 1:12 .........
"But to all who have received him--those who believe in his name--he has given the right to become God's children."
John 3:16-18 .......
"For this is the way God loved the world: he gave his one and only Son that everyone who believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. The one who believes in Him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God".
This means we must each come to God the same way:
(1) as a sinner who recognizes his sinfulness,
(2) realizes no human works can result in salvation, and
(3) relies totally on Christ alone by faith alone for our salvation.
And it all of that, the church has no say. As YOU just said, It is God ALONE who bestows His salvation.
We can also say that the Bible tells us in 1 John 5:11-12.......
"And this is the testimony: God has given us Eternal Life,
and this Life is IN (within) his Son.
The one who has the Son has this eternal life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have this eternal life."
John 1:12 .........
"But to all who have received him--those who believe in his name--he has given the right to become God's children."
This means we must each come to God the same way:
(1) as a sinner who recognizes his sinfulness,
(2) realizes no human works can result in salvation, and
(3) relies totally on Christ alone by faith alone for our salvation.
And in all of that, the Church has no say.
As YOU just said, It is God ALONE who bestows His salvation.
This affirms that our Eternal Life is IN Christ, and that to attain to Eternal Life, then we have to GO to where it is to be found, and it is to be found within Christ, wherefore we must needs BE baptized INTO Christ Who HAS Eternal Life IN Him, and Who indeed IS Eternal Life...
The key word here is HAS and HAVE, and until you are baptized INTO Christ, you cannot HAVE the Son...
Keyword here is "have received" - The Greek term's primary meaning is SIEZED, TAKEN... I
And in this meaning, 'received' means 'forcibly obtained', which gives rise to the very Mysterious question: "HOW can one forcibly obtain that which only God can freely GIVE???" And we are taken in memory to the Prophet - I forget his name, was it Jacob? - Who wrestled with God... And then the New Testament words: "From the time of John the Baptist until now, the Kingdom of Heaven [Who is Christ] is suffering violence, and the violent are SIEZING it by FORCE..." Repentance and following Christ by taking up one's own cross are violent actions taken against the self where Christ is permitting Himself to be entered and siezed by this action by man, which explains why the first WORD of the Gospel OF Jesus Christ is "BE YE REPENTING/KEEP ON REPENTING", for the Kingdom of Heaven, Which is the Body of Christ, Who is her head, is at hand, HERE and NOW...
John 3:16-18 .......
"For this is the way God loved the world: he gave his one and only Son that everyone who believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. The one who believes in Him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God".
Yes, by repentance unto entry into Christ through being Baptized into Christ...
And essential first step in repentance...
Exactly - ONLY Christ can baptize you into Himself, and He does so at the hands of the members of His Body where you ARE BAPTIZED into that very Body...
You just re-wrote the Bible... Read the text. It does not say by faith alone - It says THROUGH (eg by means of) THE Faith (OF Christ which He discipled to His disciples)
Then you are falsely arguing that Christ has no say through His Body in the matter of the Salvation that Christ GIVES to those whom He (Christ) gives ENTRY INTO His Body through Baptism INTO Christ...
Exactly so...
Which is why it is the Ekklesia of Christ, the Apostolic Church of Christ-God, that baptizes those repenting in obedience to the Gospel of Christ, INTO Christ's Body, in obedience TO Christ, discipling the nations in the Faith of Christ which they have received from Christ...
ONLY God CAN do this...
Arsenios
Except the bible does not say that
James 2:14-24- " a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."
James 2:16 -"faith without works is dead"
Gal 5:6 - only thing that counts is faith working through love
1Cor 13:2 - faith without works is nothing
Jn 14:15 -if you love me keep my commandments
Phil 2:12 - work out your salvation in fear and trembling
Mt 10:22- he who endures till the end will be save
Rom2:5--God will repay each man according to his works
Col 3:24-25 -will receive due payment according to their deeds .
Mt 7:21-not everyone who says lord lord will enter the will inherit the kingdom of heaven .
Rev 20:12-13 -dead judged according to their deeds
The Catholic Church teaches that Grace, faith and works together like a 3 legged stool working in unity . Take out one leg it falls down . Your faith alone will not save you as said in James . And my works alone won't save me .Grace alone can save . Like the Thief on the cross ,but he still had to take action, acknowledge his sins and acknowledge Christ . He was not Baptised , however this situation was not the norm . Baptism is the norm for salvation .There is not a prescription for the sinners prayer but only " believe and be baptized" . Repentance is also part of the process . The early Church guided Catholic Christians in the process of salvation . The Catholic Church recognizes your Trinitarian Baptism and and to a certain extent your sinners prayer . We consider you a Christian .
Scripture also says Baptism does something (regenerative sacrament )
Tit 3:5-he saved us through the bath of rebirth,renewal of the Holy Spirit .
Acts 1:37-38-repent,be baptized,receive the Holy Spirit
Act:22:16-get selves baptised and sins washed away
1 Cor 6:11- you were washed,sanctified,justified
Rom 6:4-baptized into death;live in newness of life
1 Peter 3:21 baptism now saves you.
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