Catholic's, at what point does it become the body?

[LittleLambofJesus]

then why does it look and taste like a wafer?

When I was a RC altar boy with the base chaplain, a few of us would sneak into the back to scarf up on the communion wafers.
Actually they were quite tasty, if ya gobbled a bunch at one time [yes, this this a true story!]

 

[Athanasias]

Not sure what that means, but what would someone to do who is allergic to it in the former case?

It means the chemical composition does not change but the substance does. If a person was allergic to the host they may just take the blood under the form of wine alone as in Catholic theology both the host and blood contain the whole Christ.

 

[Athanasias]

When I was a RC altar boy with the base chaplain, a few of us would sneak into the back to scarf up on the communion wafers.
Actually they were quite tasty, if ya gobbled a bunch at one time [yes, this this a true story!]

I hope for your souls sake that you were ignorant of what you were doing and they were not the consecrated ones.

 

[Uphill Battle]

It means the chemical composition does not change but the substance does. .

that is patently impossible.

 

[Uphill Battle]

I hope for your souls sake that you were ignorant of what you were doing and they were not the consecrated ones.

why? If they were concecrated, that means that they supposedly ate the lord's actual flesh, as Christ intended.

 

[Fireinfolding]

It means the chemical composition does not change but the substance does. If a person was allergic to the host they may just take the blood under the form of wine alone as in Catholic theology both the host and blood contain the whole Christ.

Wouldny it be as saying they are alegergic to Jesus in accord with the belief though?

So you are saying one can be substituted for the other then? What if allergic to both in rare cases? One of my best freinds that actually posts here has a daughter who had an extreme case of short gut syndrone and nothing passed her lips (nothing could) till she was in her teens, rare she lived actually but she did, but what of someone in that case as well (not nessesarily just allergic to both (the former made the news) but you never know, next wekk it could hit the news someone is allergic to both, just curious.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I hope for your souls sake that you were ignorant of what you were doing and they were not the consecrated ones.

Ease up bro! It was before they were used in the Mass..I was only 13 yrs old ehehe....sheeesh

 

[Athanasias]

Wouldny it be as saying they are alegergic to Jesus in accord with the belief though?

So you are saying one can be substituted for the other then? What if allergic to both in rare cases? One of my best freinds that actually posts here has a daughter who had an extreme case of short gut syndrone and nothing passed her lips (nothing could) till she was in her teens, rare she lived actually but she did, but what of someone in that case as well (not nessesarily just allergic to both (the former made the news) but you never know, next wekk it could hit the news someone is allergic to both, just curious.

No they would not be allergic to Jesus because what they are allergic to is the bread composition of the host which does not change. Only the substance changes

They can receive Jesus under the form of wine.

 

[Fireinfolding]

I hope for your souls sake that you were ignorant of what you were doing and they were not the consecrated ones.

I was a child when I went with some catholic freinds and partook of his body in a catholic church, no one told me any different, as far as I could tell being so young they were giving out free treats and I partook.

Do you think Jesus could forgive child such a grevious crime?

 

[Athanasias]

I was a child when I went with some catholic freinds and partook of his body in a catholic church, no one told me any different, as far as I could tell being so young they were giving out free treats and I partook.

Do you think Jesus could forgive child such a grevious crime?

You committed no crime. You were a innocent Child who did not know better. You took Jesus and ate him.

 

[Fireinfolding]

No they would not be allergic to Jesus because what they are allergic to is the bread composition of the host which does not change. Only the substance changes

Ok, so they are not really eating Jesus then and allergic to the composition substance of the bread.... but the substance changes? Or no?

What part of the substance changes?

They can receive Jesus under the form of wine.

What I was asking is what if they are allergic to both?

 

[Uphill Battle]

No they would not be allergic to Jesus because what they are allergic to is the bread composition of the host which does not change. Only the substance changes

They can receive Jesus under the form of wine.

sub·stance

   https://secure.reference.com/sso/register_pop.html?source=favorites/ˈsʌb

stəns/ Show Spelled[suhb-stuh

ns] Show IPA
–noun 1. that of which a thing consists; physical matter or material: form and substance.

2. a species of matter of definite chemical composition: a chalky substance.

 

[Uphill Battle]

You committed no crime. You were a innocent Child who did not know better. You took Jesus and ate him.

at the same time, you bemoaned the actions of another youngster, as perilous to his soul.

remain consistant!

 

[Fireinfolding]

You committed no crime. You were a innocent Child who did not know better. You took Jesus and ate him.

Kool, glad they dont condemn kids over such things.

I wouldnt be considered allergic to Jesus then huh?

 

[Athanasias]

sub·stance

   /ˈsʌb

stəns/ Show Spelled[suhb-stuh

ns] Show IPA
–noun 1. that of which a thing consists; physical matter or material: form and substance.

2. a species of matter of definite chemical composition: a chalky substance.

We are talking about what the term substance means in Catholic philosophy not a regular dictionary. Substance is what a thing is. accidents are what they appear to be, taste like, look like ,etc.

 

[Athanasias]

Kool, glad they dont condemn kids over such things.

I wouldnt be considered allergic to Jesus then huh?

No no you would not be considered allergic to Jesus. You would be allergic to wheat bread and its chemical composition.

 

[Fireinfolding]

sub·stance

   /ˈsʌb

stəns/ Show Spelled[suhb-stuh

ns] Show IPA
–noun 1. that of which a thing consists; physical matter or material: form and substance.

2. a species of matter of definite chemical composition: a chalky substance.

So the compostion is not Jesus and the allergic reaction is not towards Jesus but the chemical composition, it would be really something else if someone could not eat regular bread and show they have no allergy to the physical bread of Christ, showing somewhat in themselves it changed somehow and was not as other bread in them.

 

[Uphill Battle]

We are talking about what the term substance means in Catholic philosophy not a regular dictionary. Substance is what a thing is. accidents are what they appear to be, taste like, look like ,etc.

in otherwords, to change the bread and wine to flesh and blood, you must also change the meanings of the words, to try and explain that which is not evidenced, correct?

 

[nephilimiyr]

On how this thread started out I can see why Catholics for the most part have avoided this thread.

Being an ex-Catholic this question of transubstantiation was a minor point of my whole disagreements with the RCC. I was always told this was something that we were to believe in faith, that the waffer didn't actually change it's composition but we were none-the-less supposed to believe that it had changed into the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ. The actual change though has never been the priority of mine but the reason why we were supposed to believe this was a priority of mine.

The main given reasons why I was to believe this was so that Jesus' life would remain in me. But after reading the NT for myself I see that the Holy Spirit acts as a seal within us so that his life never leaves us. When the Holy Spirit comes in He seals himself within us so that we don't have to go through rituals to keep him inside of us. We don't have to partake of rituals inorder for this to happen because he has done the work inside us to keep himself there.

So I don't know. My mother used to scare me about missing Mass, and it worked for a long time. Until I asked myself, would I rather go through these rituals Sunday after Sunday in order to be filled with Jesus or simply have the peace in knowing that the Holy Spirit resides in me forever because He wills it?

 

[Athanasias]

in otherwords, to change the bread and wine to flesh and blood, you must also change the meanings of the words, to try and explain that which is not evidenced, correct?

No it means we have just always gone by Aristotles traditional philosophic definitions of the words and not modern 21st century definitions of what accidents and substance means.

Natural Philosophy - Substance and Accident