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Catholics and ALLAH

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Carey

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The Qur'an does teach a much more aggressive viewpoint than the NT does. It preaches "eye for an eye", unlike Christ.

It does have it's positives though, it's not just a book of evil. It also says that it is better to pursue peace, and to forgive people who repent.

It's not accurate to lump all of Islam together as "the bad guys". It seems way too many Christians have this viewpoint, and in my opinion, they just use that mentality to comfort themselves in the "I'm right, you're wrong" approach.

Yes Ted Bundy had a Charming side too.
The fact is Satan is a cunning deciever. He had to put some warm and fuzzy stuff in that Satanic Book the Quran.He ddid this to decieve peopel into believing it is not an EVIL religion.
But common sense would lead one to know it is very evil and TOTALLY ANTI CHRISTian.
 
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Apollo Celestio

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Yes Ted Bundy had a Charming side too.
The fact is Satan is a cunning deciever. He had to put some warm and fuzzy stuff in that Satanic Book the Quran.He ddid this to decieve peopel into believing it is not an EVIL religion.
But common sense would lead one to know it is very evil and TOTALLY ANTI CHRISTian.

It seems his best tool to use are half-truths..
Sorry for posting.
 
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PaladinValer

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Yes Ted Bundy had a Charming side too.

Orthodox Islam however is not comparable to Ted Bundy.

The fact is Satan is a cunning deciever. He had to put some warm and fuzzy stuff in that Satanic Book the Quran.He ddid this to decieve peopel into believing it is not an EVIL religion.

If "the Devil is at fault" is the best comeback you have after I proved to you that the Qur'an rejects actions made by its heretical militant "followers," then I and I daresay most people are not impressed.

But common sense would lead one to know it is very evil and TOTALLY ANTI CHRISTian.

The only anti-Christian behavior here is the lack of loving one's neighbor as oneself that I see in this thread.

Who is our neighbor, Carey? Should we spread lies and misinformation about what they believe? Is that a loving thing to do?
 
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Carey

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Orthodox Islam however is not comparable to Ted Bundy.



If "the Devil is at fault" is the best comeback you have after I proved to you that the Qur'an rejects actions made by its heretical militant "followers," then I and I daresay most people are not impressed.



The only anti-Christian behavior here is the lack of loving one's neighbor as oneself that I see in this thread.

Who is our neighbor, Carey? Should we spread lies and misinformation about what they believe? Is that a loving thing to do?[/quot

Ted Bundy and true followers of the Quran are mass murderers.

There has no lie or misinformation been spread here.

There are plenty of sites taht will show you exactly what sura to go to to prove the evil in the quaran
if you dont want to read the whole thing.

Yes muslims are our neighboor and we can love our eenemy but can still speak the truth anout our neighboors false anti Christian religion.
 
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PaladinValer

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Ted Bundy and true followers of the Quran are mass murderers.

Since I proved the latter half of that statement wrong, your entire statement is therefore false.

p^q
~q
Therefore ~(p^q) must be true.

There has no lie or misinformation been spread here.

I posted the irrevocable evidence above that proves otherwise.

There are plenty of sites taht will show you exactly what sura to go to to prove the evil in the quaran
if you dont want to read the whole thing.

I posted quotes from the Qu'ran itself that prove you are wrong.

Yes muslims are our neighboor and we can love our eenemy but can still speak the truth anout our neighboors false anti Christian religion.

Hate is the real anti-Christian religion. The only hate I see spread by Islam is done by the equivocable people in Christianity.
 
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Carey

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Since I proved the latter half of that statement wrong, your entire statement is therefore false.

p^q
~q
Therefore ~(p^q) must be true.



I posted the irrevocable evidence above that proves otherwise.



I posted quotes from the Qu'ran itself that prove you are wrong.



Hate is the real anti-Christian religion. The only hate I see spread by Islam is done by the equivocable people in Christianity.

Warning: The following quotes are blasphemous. They are taken from the Koran (translated by N.J. Danwood). By reading these quotes you will have a basic understanding of the Muslim religion, the wars and tension in the Middle East, and the terrorism on September 11:

"Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)
"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)
"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)
"...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)

"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73) "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

The most blasphemous and PROOF ISLAM IS A HUGE ANTI CHRIST

"'How shall I bear a child,' she [Mary] answered, 'when I am a virgin...?' 'Such is the will of the Lord,' he replied. 'That is no difficult thing for Him...God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a son!...Those who say: 'The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,' preach a monstrous falsehood..." (Surah 19:12-, 29-, 88)
 
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PaladinValer

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Warning: The following quotes are blasphemous. They are taken from the Koran (translated by N.J. Danwood). By reading these quotes you will have a basic understanding of the Muslim religion, the wars and tension in the Middle East, and the terrorism on September 11:

Ah yes...one-liners. Why don't you include the surrounding text so you can take those one-liners in perspective like the Muslims do?

I could easily say "ooo! oooo! The Bible says "there is no God." That means the Bible says Christianity is wrong!" Pretty simple, right? I did exactly as you did below; take verses and sections right out of context just so that what I think is proven. Eisegesis is not proof, Carey; not in the Bible and not in the Qu'ran either.

"Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)

For what reason, Carey? Did you not provide it because it would otherwise prove you wrong? I'd say yes, for the context begins verses earlier and you conveniently left out the rest of that verse (sorta like how I did above in my above example. Bad form):

101: Ahen when ye go fourth in the land, it is no sin for you to curtail (your) worship if ye fear that those who disbelieve may attack you. In truth the debelievers are an open enemy to you.

((Aha! So now we have a context. The Qur'an is talking about Muslims to live in other lands where their religion is a minority. It tells the Muslims that, if the non-Muslims are going to be hostile towards them, God will not hold it against them if they are change the style of their worship. These sorts of disbelievers, it says, are truly enemies if they are going to be outright hostile. It shows God to be a caring and compassionate deity.))

102: And when thou (O Muhammad) art among them and arrangest (their) worship for them, let only a party of them stand with thee (to worship) and let them take their arms. Then when they have performed their prostrations let them fall in the rear and let another party come that hath not worshipped and let them worship with thee, and let them take their precaution and their arms. Those who disbelieve long for you to neglect your arms and your baggage that they may attack you once and for all. It is no sin for you to lay aside your arms, if rain impedeth you or ye are sick. But take your precautions. Lo! Allah prepareth for the disbeliever shameful punishment.

((If the non-Muslims in the area are hostile, you are allowed to protect yourselves, for hostile non-Muslims would take the opportunity to attack you if you do not protect yourselves. Many Christian missionaries, particularly those in the Philippeans, do very much the same))

103: When ye have performed the act of worship, remember Allah, standing, sitting and reclining. And when ye are in safety, remember proper worship. Worship at fixed hours hath been enjoined on the believers.

((So proper worship is done without precautions, for it is in safety since the non-Muslims [as we are still in non-Muslim lands] are tolerant and peaceful towards them.))

104: Relent not in persuit of the enemy. If ye are suffering, lo! they suffer even as ye suffer and ye hope from Allah that for which they cannot hope. Allah is ever Knower, Wise.

((Be observant of the situation. If you find that your lives may be in danger, take precaution. If they attack, you can defend yourselves and you would be in the right, since you never provoked attack because all you were doing was worshipping))

105: Lo! We reveal unto thee the Scripture with the truth, that thou mayest judge between mankind by that which Allah showeth thee. And be not thou a pleader for the treacherous; 106. And seek forgiveness of Allah. Lo! Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

((You cannot simply declare non-Muslims hostile; you must fairly judge them so. If they are treacherous [ie, hostile], then do not plead for their case since they are hostile to you. Instead, seek forgiveness, and be fair in judgment, for it is clear above that if you live with peaceful and tolerant non-Muslims, then arms and precautions are not required, since you don't need to defend yourself))

Now, where is the evil again?

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

Historical context and interqur'anic context is again left out. I'll let the readers read the Qur'an themselves and see how you once again took a wrongful pot-shot once again, but I'll explain the historical context:

When this surah was "revealed," it was during a time of strong hostility towards the fledgling religion. Many Christian and Jewish tribes broke peace treaties with the Muslims. Therefore, the context says that you cannot trust untrustworthy Christians and Jews. Making friends with them will be your downfall since they will betray you. It therefore doesn't mean all Christians and Jews are unfriendly.

"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)

Wow. Did you read the context? Folks, pick up your Qur'ans and read around and see the context. It is about Muslims defending themselves. They are attacked first and they are to stop when persecution ceases.

"...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)
Again folks, break out those Qur'ans! Yep, once again, the Muslims are defending themselves from physical oppression. They did not instigate it; they are simply protecting themselves here.

"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)
"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

Same mistakes as above.

The most blasphemous and PROOF ISLAM IS A HUGE ANTI CHRIST

Jesus told us to speak the truth. You have not, and I have proven it.
 
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Carey

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Ah yes...one-liners. Why don't you include the surrounding text so you can take those one-liners in perspective like the Muslims do?

I could easily say "ooo! oooo! The Bible says "there is no God." That means the Bible says Christianity is wrong!" Pretty simple, right? I did exactly as you did below; take verses and sections right out of context just so that what I think is proven. Eisegesis is not proof, Carey; not in the Bible and not in the Qu'ran either.



For what reason, Carey? Did you not provide it because it would otherwise prove you wrong? I'd say yes, for the context begins verses earlier and you conveniently left out the rest of that verse (sorta like how I did above in my above example. Bad form):

101: Ahen when ye go fourth in the land, it is no sin for you to curtail (your) worship if ye fear that those who disbelieve may attack you. In truth the debelievers are an open enemy to you.

((Aha! So now we have a context. The Qur'an is talking about Muslims to live in other lands where their religion is a minority. It tells the Muslims that, if the non-Muslims are going to be hostile towards them, God will not hold it against them if they are change the style of their worship. These sorts of disbelievers, it says, are truly enemies if they are going to be outright hostile. It shows God to be a caring and compassionate deity.))

102: And when thou (O Muhammad) art among them and arrangest (their) worship for them, let only a party of them stand with thee (to worship) and let them take their arms. Then when they have performed their prostrations let them fall in the rear and let another party come that hath not worshipped and let them worship with thee, and let them take their precaution and their arms. Those who disbelieve long for you to neglect your arms and your baggage that they may attack you once and for all. It is no sin for you to lay aside your arms, if rain impedeth you or ye are sick. But take your precautions. Lo! Allah prepareth for the disbeliever shameful punishment.

((If the non-Muslims in the area are hostile, you are allowed to protect yourselves, for hostile non-Muslims would take the opportunity to attack you if you do not protect yourselves. Many Christian missionaries, particularly those in the Philippeans, do very much the same))

103: When ye have performed the act of worship, remember Allah, standing, sitting and reclining. And when ye are in safety, remember proper worship. Worship at fixed hours hath been enjoined on the believers.

((So proper worship is done without precautions, for it is in safety since the non-Muslims [as we are still in non-Muslim lands] are tolerant and peaceful towards them.))

104: Relent not in persuit of the enemy. If ye are suffering, lo! they suffer even as ye suffer and ye hope from Allah that for which they cannot hope. Allah is ever Knower, Wise.

((Be observant of the situation. If you find that your lives may be in danger, take precaution. If they attack, you can defend yourselves and you would be in the right, since you never provoked attack because all you were doing was worshipping))

105: Lo! We reveal unto thee the Scripture with the truth, that thou mayest judge between mankind by that which Allah showeth thee. And be not thou a pleader for the treacherous; 106. And seek forgiveness of Allah. Lo! Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

((You cannot simply declare non-Muslims hostile; you must fairly judge them so. If they are treacherous [ie, hostile], then do not plead for their case since they are hostile to you. Instead, seek forgiveness, and be fair in judgment, for it is clear above that if you live with peaceful and tolerant non-Muslims, then arms and precautions are not required, since you don't need to defend yourself))

Now, where is the evil again?



Historical context and interqur'anic context is again left out. I'll let the readers read the Qur'an themselves and see how you once again took a wrongful pot-shot once again, but I'll explain the historical context:

When this surah was "revealed," it was during a time of strong hostility towards the fledgling religion. Many Christian and Jewish tribes broke peace treaties with the Muslims. Therefore, the context says that you cannot trust untrustworthy Christians and Jews. Making friends with them will be your downfall since they will betray you. It therefore doesn't mean all Christians and Jews are unfriendly.



Wow. Did you read the context? Folks, pick up your Qur'ans and read around and see the context. It is about Muslims defending themselves. They are attacked first and they are to stop when persecution ceases.

"...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)
Again folks, break out those Qur'ans! Yep, once again, the Muslims are defending themselves from physical oppression. They did not instigate it; they are simply protecting themselves here.



Same mistakes as above.



Jesus told us to speak the truth. You have not, and I have proven it.


My brother I do not like to disagree over and over because the book of Timothy tells me not to argue scripture I feel its ok here because you are attempting to decieve our bretheren with the Quran.

104: Relent not in persuit of the enemy. If ye are suffering, lo! they suffer even as ye suffer and ye hope from Allah that for which they cannot hope. Allah is ever Knower, Wise.

Here The Quran is saying if your suffering blame somene else like Israel or the USA and attack them in your own (SELF DEFENSE???)...LOL Don't blame your own stupidity and cowardousness in elcting Hibullah and Hamas.


((Be observant of the situation. If you find that your lives may be in danger, take precaution. If they attack, you can defend yourselves and you would be in the right, since you never provoked attack because all you were doing was worshipping))

105: Lo! We reveal unto thee the Scripture with the truth, that thou mayest judge between mankind by that which Allah showeth thee. And be not thou a pleader for the treacherous; 106. And seek forgiveness of Allah. Lo! Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

Here it says judge your fellow mankind ( unbeliever as allah would Like you are a muslim God over the treacherous . And after you have no choice to kill them after judging them by making war on them . Ask for Allahs forgiveness of the ones you have subdued KIDNAPPED and used by beheading to TERROROSE the world into subjection and forced the only true religion ISLAM)



((You cannot simply declare non-Muslims hostile; you must fairly judge them so. If they are treacherous [ie, hostile], then do not plead for their case since they are hostile to you. Instead, seek forgiveness, and be fair in judgment, for it is clear above that if you live with peaceful and tolerant non-Muslims, then arms and precautions are not required, since you don't need to defend yourself))

Now, where is the evil again?

I answered you after each verse above . Use you brain it is sooo plain.

I command in Jesus name that the spirit of arguement and rebellion be removed from you so you will not be blinded to such and obvious truth.

AMEN
 
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PaladinValer

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My brother I do not like to disagree over and over because the book of Timothy tells me not to argue scripture I feel its ok here because you are attempting to decieve our bretheren with the Quran.

No, I'm simply proving to you that your reading of the Qur'an is incorrect. If anyone is deceiving, it is you.

Here The Quran is saying if your suffering blame somene else like Israel or the USA and attack them in your own (SELF DEFENSE???)...LOL Don't blame your own stupidity and cowardousness in elcting Hibullah and Hamas.

Those groups aren't orthodox Muslims. Therefore, to compare Islam to them is illogical.

Here it says judge your fellow mankind ( unbeliever as allah would Like you are a muslim God over the treacherous . And after you have no choice to kill them after judging them by making war on them . Ask for Allahs forgiveness of the ones you have subdued KIDNAPPED and used by beheading to TERROROSE the world into subjection and forced the only true religion ISLAM)


Sorry, but as I proved already easlier, there is no compulsion in religion. Your interpretation is therefore not orthodox in Islam but heretical to Islam.

I answered you after each verse above . Use you brain it is sooo plain.

Then why can't you get it?

I command in Jesus name that the spirit of arguement and rebellion be removed from you so you will not be blinded to such and obvious truth.

:yawn:

Doesn't seem like the Holy Spirit heard you. Perhaps that means that the Holy Spirit agrees with me?

Be very careful when invoking the Holy Spirit; you may end up hurting yourself in ways you wouldn't imagine.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I could easily say "ooo! oooo! The Bible says "there is no God." That means the Bible says Christianity is wrong!" Pretty simple, right? I did exactly as you did below; take verses and sections right out of context just so that what I think is proven. Eisegesis is not proof, Carey; not in the Bible and not in the Qu'ran either.
Hi. I started a thread with the Mulsims concerning their version of the "Endtime" and to tell the truth, there isn't that much difference except they go by Muhammad while we go by the Bible and especially Revelation.
This is a friendly discsussion. Peace.

http://foru.ms/t5873383-questions-for-muslims-on-return-of-jesus.html
questions-for-muslims-on-return-of-jesus

quote Muslim:

This describes Day of Judgement (After return of Jesus).

Islamically, on day of judgement, Angel will blow trumpet twice.
On 1st sound everything will die(all is mortal)

On 2nh sound all will resurrect & be gathered before God for judgement of deeds.


quote LLOJ:

My view is the opposite.
The Ressurection,Saved ones and Rewards will be first, then the Wrath and Destruction on the Wicked.

17 saying: "We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned. 18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."
 
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Carey

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No, I'm simply proving to you that your reading of the Qur'an is incorrect. If anyone is deceiving, it is you.



Those groups aren't orthodox Muslims. Therefore, to compare Islam to them is illogical.




Sorry, but as I proved already easlier, there is no compulsion in religion. Your interpretation is therefore not orthodox in Islam but heretical to Islam.



Then why can't you get it?



:yawn:

Doesn't seem like the Holy Spirit heard you. Perhaps that means that the Holy Spirit agrees with me?

Be very careful when invoking the Holy Spirit; you may end up hurting yourself in ways you wouldn't imagine.


Yes I agree being careful.
I also believe in being coutageous in faith.
I know you are the one taking the Quran out of context.

May God open you eyes.

Hod bless oyu,

carey
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Yes I agree being careful.
I also believe in being coutageous in faith.
I know you are the one taking the Quran out of context.

May God open you eyes.

Hod bless oyu,

carey
I believe a lot of Christ-ians also take the Bible out of context.
Notice this outrageous response by a Christ-ian on the NCR board concerning when hatred in the world would end.:eek:

http://foru.ms/t5894608-when-will-the-hate-end.html
When will the hate end....?

quote poster: It will not end until Jesus comes back
 
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Carey

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I believe a lot of Christ-ians also take the Bible out of context.
Notice this outrageous response by a Christ-ian on the NCR board concerning when hatred in the world would end.:eek:

http://foru.ms/t5894608-when-will-the-hate-end.html
When will the hate end....?

quote poster: It will not end until Jesus comes back

Yes we Christians are'nt perfect but our religion is.

The Bible is so easy to not take out of context when taken LITERALLY unless it exlpains right after something is a parable that it was so.
Whenever their was a parable or vision in the Bible the Bible gives an explaination.
Yes if you have a very small faith you can LITERALLY command a mountain to move into the sea and walk on water.
This LITERALLY shows how LITERALLY small ALL of our faith is. Even those who would think their faith is great.
 
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PaladinValer

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Yes I agree being careful.

Yet you were not. Your (failed) invocation of the Holy Spirit is proof enough.

I also believe in being coutageous in faith.

Which is why I am committed to orthodoxy.

I know you are the one taking the Quran out of context.

Except I proved that I'm right and you are gravely mistaken.

May God open you eyes.

:yawn: Invoking God again? That's two failed times in just a few hours. I don't think the Almighty is pleased that you are mistreating one of His servants like you are doing.
 
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Carey

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Yet you were not. Your (failed) invocation of the Holy Spirit is proof enough.



Which is why I am committed to orthodoxy.



Except I proved that I'm right and you are gravely mistaken.



:yawn: Invoking God again? That's two failed times in just a few hours. I don't think the Almighty is pleased that you are mistreating one of His servants like you are doing.

I have no power over God and the Holy spirit and they never fail.
God does things in his own time.

god bless you.

carey
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Yes I agree being careful.
I also believe in being coutageous in faith.
I know you are the one taking the Quran out of context.

May God open you eyes.

Hod bless oyu,

carey
Hi. You may find this topic interesting. Rarely is there anyone that is knowledgable concerning the Translation of the koran.
This person seems to have rebutted the Muslims translation concerning a crucifixion verse and I suppose if I could get a good accurate Arabic/English interlinear, I might study on it myself. The old adage still goes "Know thy Enemies" LOL.

http://foru.ms/t5859268-how-does-islam-and-christian-resurrection-differ.html

Christian's translation:

4.157 And their saying: "Certainly we killedThe Messiah, Jesus, Mary's son, “allah's” messenger”, and that they killed him, and that they crucified him, and certainly they alike, and certainly whom they followed in Him, certainly they (are) not in doubt from Him, on account of Him, from knowledge, except to follow the belief, and that they surely killed him.

Standard Muslim's translation:

[Quran:4:157]"That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Apostle of God";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) know ledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- [158] Nay, God raised him up unto Himself; and God is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
 
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Ave Maria

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There is nothing wrong with a Christian calling God "Allah". Allah is simply the Arabic name for God. Arab Christians call God "Allah". I see nothing wrong with it. Its just a term from another language, namely Arabic.
 
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R3quiem

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There is nothing wrong with a Christian calling God "Allah". Allah is simply the Arabic name for God. Arab Christians call God "Allah". I see nothing wrong with it. Its just a term from another language, namely Arabic.
It's a very respectful name too, because it can't be pluralized or genderized, like the word "god" can.
 
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Yekcidmij

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There is nothing wrong with a Christian calling God "Allah". Allah is simply the Arabic name for God. Arab Christians call God "Allah". I see nothing wrong with it. Its just a term from another language, namely Arabic.

Maybe this just goes back along the lines of some things Paul said. It doesn't matter by what title you call God weather it be Creator, God, Almighty, Lord, or what have you. Maybe if it causes someone to stumble, we shouldn't use it. I dont know though, just a thought.
 
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