Catholics and ALLAH

[Tonks]

Hi. What about "HAYAH"?

I was taking a closer look at this passage in Exodus 3 and was wondering if the hebrew word 01961 ha-yah is 2 seperate words hyphenated, and the meaning appears to signify "SHALL BE". Any thoughts on this? Thanks.

Not a fan of the Sacred Name business.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

In that case, Muslims would have created a different god with the same name. Much the way cults take the name 'Jesus' and create a different version.

http://www.jews-for-allah.org/

http://www.jews-for-allah.org/history-of-love

​

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Not a fan of the Sacred Name business.

I wasn't talking about "sacred name" but the translation of the passage.

Exodus 3:13 And Mosheh is saying unto 'Elohiym , `Lo, I am coming unto sons of Yisra'el, and I say to them, 'Elohiym of your fathers He sends me unto you, and they have said to me, What [is] His Name? what do I say unto them?'
14 And 'Elohiym saith unto Mosheh, "I-shall-be/01961 ha-yah who I-shall-be/01961 ha-yah". And-He saying `Thus dost thou say to the sons of Yisra'el, I-shall-be/01961 ha-yah He-sent-me unto-you.'
15 And 'Elohiym saith again unto Moses, `Thus dost thou say unto the sons of Yisra'el, YHWH, 'Elohiym of your fathers, 'Elohiym of Abraham, 'Elohiym of Yitschaq, and 'Elohiym of Ya`aqob, hath sent me unto you; this [is] My name--to the age, and this My memorial, to generation--generation.

Used 43 times in 40 verses as

I-shall-be I-am-becoming I-shall-become

01961 ha-yah {haw-yaw} a primitive root [compare 01933]; TWOT - 491; v
AV - was, come to pass, came, has been, were happened, become, pertained, better for thee; 75
1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out 1a) (Qal) 1a1) -----

 

[Tonks]

I know you weren't specifically talking about SN...just extending the logic.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I know you weren't specifically talking about SN...just extending the logic.

Actuall what brought it up was that passage in John 8 and what made me look at Exodus again.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

John 8:57 The Jews, therefore, said unto him, `Thou art not yet fifty years old, and Abraham hast thou seen?'
58 Saying to them, the Jesus--`Verily, verily, I am saying to ye, Before Abraham to be becoming/genesqai <1096> --I/egw <1473> am/eimi <1510>;'
59 they took up, therefore, stones that they may cast at him, but Jesus hid himself, and went forth out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

 

[PaladinValer]

First thing I have been taught in every class when it comes to determining the "right" meaning of a word: Appeals to etymology are fallacious. You should appreciate this, having hastily dismissed every argument on the grounds of "fallacy".

Would any of those professors have expertice in linguistics, languages, the history of language, or any other related field? A PhD is worthless if a person is talking about a subject or field he or she is not educated upon. A PhD in biology isn't an authority in history, despite the PhD.

And to completely disregard the etymological evidence is the Fallacy of Excusion. Ignoring any sort of relevent fact or figure is simply foolish.

A good example would be how we derived the word "priest" from and why many Protestants incorrectly insist that there are no NT priests.

presbuteros -> presbyter -> prester -> priest

Language exists for communication. If you're miscommunicating, it's being done wrong. That's what miscommunication means. Appealing to etymology, now that's a fallacy.

No, appealing to etymology is sound.

No PV thats YOUR WAY you are trying to put on me. I INSULT MYSELF constantly on this forum and those who know me know that very well. I was making fun of MY OWN INABILITY to comprehend what it says.

Self-depreciation in this manner only kills the soul. Take it from the grand master in the subject.

I know it was an extreme example and a little crazy. My point was that, at least for christians in america, the name/title Allah is associated with the Muslim god.

Muslim God=Christian God.

Right or wrong, that's what it is associated with here in america. So, I think it's very important what title, and escecially what name, we call God. In america "Allah" doesn't, at least in most cases that I know of, bring up an association with the God of christian scripture.

It absolutely does actually.

Besides is Allah a name or a title? The distinction between the two is very important.

Both.

Worrying about the use of the term Allah by Arabs for the Christian God because Muslims use the term for their allah is like fretting over the use of the term God, because pagans worship gods.

Agreed.

However, the point in the article that we should use the term because we all worship the same God is absurd. Neither Muslims or Jews worship the Holy Trinity, therefore they are in direct conflict with the NC Creed and worship a different God than Christians do.

How do you answer the problem of Marcionism then?

You know, out of all God's names in the Bible, I don't recall allah being one of them.

Pick up a Bible in Arabic. Voila!

Is the god of islam, the same God we serve?

He seems to have different desires, so no.

Read the Old Testament? Not much difference really between God described in the Qur'an and in the Tanakh. And Jews worship the same God don't they?

Not a fan of the Sacred Name business.

(wait...that's a pagan term! )

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

A good example would be how we derived the word "priest" from and why many Protestants incorrectly insist that there are no NT priests.

presbuteros -> presbyter -> prester -> priest

JESUS>PRIEST>ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK>

Hierousalem (Strong's 2419) occurs 83 times in 80 verses:
ierousalhm <2419>,

Matthew 24:1 And coming-out, the Jesus, went from the Temple/ierou <2411>, and his disciples toward-come to show him the house-build of the temple,

Hebrews 7:1 For this the Melchisedek/melcisedek <3198> , king of Salem/salhm <4532>, priest/iereuV of the God of the Most High/uyistou <5310>, the together-joining Abraham turning-back from the smiting of the kings, and did bless him,

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/priest/RP24.htm

One of the most intriguing descriptions of the unique character of the High Priesthood of Jesus is found in Heb. 7:17 wherein it is stated, "Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." This one grand statement shows that Jesus is not like any of the other priests who the people of Israel knew so much about. The entire seventh chapter of Hebrews is about THE MELCHIZEDEK CONNECTION, that is, it is about the way Jesus Christ, and thus, His body, the Royal Priesthood, is related to a strange man named Melchizedek

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Allah and Ishmael instead of God and Isaac.

http://www.christianforums.com/t5924794-why-did-yhwh-elohiym-call-isaac-only-son.html
why-did-yhwh-elohiym-call-isaac-only-son

Response Muslim:

[Quran:5:41] O Apostle! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, "If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!" If any one's trial is intended by God, thou hast no authority in the least for him against God. For such - it is not God's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment.


[2:79] Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from God," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.

 

[PaladinValer]

That's proof, if anything, that Muslims worship the same God we do if you want to go the route of Ishmael -> Muslims.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That's proof, if anything, that Muslims worship the same God we do if you want to go the route of Ishmael -> Muslims.

Yep. But what is humurous is they say the Bible was written by men whereby the Koran is from God. Does that mean the Koran wasn't written by men also?

[2:79] Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from God," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.

 

[Oblio]

Quick question:

Quddusun Allah! Quddusun al-qawi! Quddusun al-adhi, la yamut irhamna.

Is this Christian or Muslim ?

 

[Thekla]

Quick question:

Quddusun Allah! Quddusun al-qawi! Quddusun al-adhi, la yamut irhamna.

Is this Christian or Muslim ?

Whoa ! I know one word in that sentence, but with the rhythm, I'm pretty certain I know what it means ...

 

[PaladinValer]

That I believe is the Trisagion, the Thrice Holy, in Arabic.

Quddusun Allah = Holy God
Quddusun al-qawi = Holy and Mighty
Quddusun al-adhi = Holy Immortal One
la yamut irhamna = have mercy upon us

 

[Carey]

Any thoughts or comments on this news? I also put it up on the NCR board for the Muslims to see their reaction.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57178

TESTING THE FAITH
Bishop urges Christians to call God 'Allah'

Catholic leader believes it would help ease tensions between religions

http://www.christianforums.com/f76-non-christian-religion.html

Sounds like the beast is gonna grow stronger.
http://www.christianforums.com/t5928359-how-blind-and-stupid-are-we.html

http://www.christianforums.com/t5925554-the-son-of-perdition-or-the-beast.html

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/the_false_prophet.htm

 

[nestoj]

al-qawi!

Mighty or Strong????

Anyway, to OP - we miss the point. If the spoken bishop's intention was to make us all closer to Christians from holy Antiochian Orthodox Church - then I would be pretty impressed - unfortunately, somehow I doubt that was his idea...

nestoj
God helps

 

[Carey]

Mighty or Strong????

Anyway, to OP - we miss the point. If the spoken bishop's intention was to make us all closer to Christians from holy Antiochian Orthodox Church - then I would be pretty impressed - unfortunately, somehow I doubt that was his idea...

nestoj
God helps

No it was an obvious concession to the beast of Islam.
It will embolden terrorist Muslims.

When the Pope Benedict prayed n a Mosque it emboldened them.

When Pope John Paul kissed the Quran and called it a Holy book it emboldened them .

They will never cease until they win or are destroyed.
Jesus will return and desroy them.

 

[Oblio]

Anyway, to OP - we miss the point. If the spoken bishop's intention was to make us all closer to Christians from holy Antiochian Orthodox Church - then I would be pretty impressed - unfortunately, somehow I doubt that was his idea...

I doubt it too. I believe some of us got the point. Unfortunately it wandered to the erroneous point that the term (or name) Allah is the problem. It is not, Islam is the problem (and those who would capitulate towards it's adherents)

 

[PaladinValer]

No it was an obvious concession to the beast of Islam.

No wonder many Muslims don't like the West...we give them a reason to despise us!

It will embolden terrorist Muslims.

If anything, it will anger them.

When the Pope Benedict prayed n a Mosque it emboldened them.

Proof?

{quote]When Pope John Paul kissed the Quran and called it a Holy book it emboldened them.[/quote]

Proof?

They will never cease until they win or are destroyed.

Perhaps, but as I doubt you are a prophet, I'll simply take that as an opinion only.

Jesus will return and desroy them.

That doesn't sound like the Jesus the Holy Church knows.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

No it was an obvious concession to the beast of Islam.
It will embolden terrorist Muslims.

When the Pope Benedict prayed n a Mosque it emboldened them.

When Pope John Paul kissed the Quran and called it a Holy book it emboldened them .

They will never cease until they win or are destroyed.
Jesus will return and desroy them.

Sounds like the beast is gonna grow stronger.
http://www.christianforums.com/t5928359-how-blind-and-stupid-are-we.html

http://www.christianforums.com/t5925554-the-son-of-perdition-or-the-beast.html

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/the_false_prophet.htm

Why does someone always have to bring up Islam being the "Beast"

 

[Yekcidmij]

Muslim God=Christian God.

No. Come on, as a catholic you should recognize the differences. I think you just like being argumenative.