Catholicism wrong?

[Lisa0315]

Anyone notice anything different about my character? 90 blessings to the first one who gets it right!

 

[ZuZu]

Is it the "Catholic Friend and Ally. Ask me why!"?

 

[Lisa0315]

Is it the "Catholic Friend and Ally. Ask me why!"?

Aww!!! That was too easy! But, yes. 90 blessings on the way.

 

[Skripper]

Ask you why? Ask you why? Well, because you've met a bunch of great folks in OBOB, of course, who have given valid explanations for their beliefs . . . silly wabbit!

 

[Vedant]

The Holy Spirit is in the believer not in a building. I believe that the church, the Bride of Christ, is the whole body of believers regardless of denomination. Now, that is not to say there aren't denominations out there who preach a false gospel. However, those who agree on the fundementals are part of Christ's church. The fundementals are that Jesus was born of a virgin, lived a perfect and sinless life, was 100% God and 100% man, died on the cross at Calvary to atone for sin, rose again on the third day, and will return in Glory. The Nicene Creed says it better.

Lisa, I don't know if you said this before or not, but do you trust in the ecumenical councils? If so, which ones do you trust in?

 

[Vedant]

The problem is one of language. Protestanism in seeking it's own identity( which is till doing BTW) has formed it's own language that is different then what Catholics use. We may speak english but we the words are used differently in protestanim.

When we say we pray to Mary. What we mean is that we are asking her to pray with and for us The same way that you have asked others to pray for you and have asked others to pray with you.

The notion that clergy is closer to God then a lay person with in Catholicism is foreign to Catholicism. It's just simply not true.

Peace

The same problem is prevalent between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, as I have discovered.

 

[Vedant]

You are correct on a few points.
It is not a building of stone, but a building on His Apostles teachings.
You are correct about demoniations, which did not exist prior to 1500 AD.
It is when denominations split apart what was already ordained that causes the confusion.

One must ask.....which came first; The Teachings from the Apostles, or the letters they wrote later?
And who has been left to discern the letters?
WE know the letters were written to the first 'priests' or rather 'disciples' that the Apostles were teaching.
Note; the Epistles are instructions to the Churches already established. Correct?



You are very clever. Yes, this is true.
But who has the first truths is what we should truly be in search of.
This becomes a difficult task when one man says the Bible means this, and another breaks off and says it means that. Would you agree?
So therefore man cannot be the authority of such Testaments. They are fallible and each one may feel it means one thing, and the other will totally disgree. Sad truly.



Love the Nicene Creed.
Jesus was all of that and more.
Jesus left His ppl a truth to follow, with which gives mankind graces abundantly, because He is all Mercy.
And yet, He is all just too.

So, we have to dig up research, and see what exactly was taught, not only by the Apostles themselves in the Epistles, because they were Inspired, but also because they taught prior to those writings...so what did they teach?

The early Christians who were taught by the Apostles, knew definitively what they were teaching.

There were 7 sacraments given, all are in the Bible, but moreso these sacraments warrant graces that help us succeed in our struggles on earth. Jesus is always good, and He knew our struggles b4 He ascended.

He did not leave us orphaned. He promised to be with us until the end of time.

So, is He with us, and did He leave us salvavic measures outside the Bible?

The Apostles taught the sacraments, and used them.
All of which aid us on our journey home. That is where we all desire to go, I believe I can assume such.

Would the Lord, filled with utter Love and Mercy leave His sheep unattended for 30 or 40 years? The NT, Epistles, were not even written while the first followers were learning.

He sent the truths in the Apostles, who taught the truths. NOT all of which were recorded by their very selves, but also recorded within their first Churches by their pupils.

Do you know anything about the sacraments and how they can be defined in the Bible?

I would like to add that it can be thought that there are seven major Sacraments, but the definition of the word has changed over time, and as such there are now only seven Sacraments in the Catholic church and seven Mysteries in Orthodoxy.

The Assyrian Church of the East has a Mystery called "Holy Leaven" and even consider the sign of the cross to be a lesser sacrament.

 

[Vedant]

THIS faith, which is the faith in the Eucharist.
Specifics, not generalization.

Luther generalized faith to mean that is all it takes without cooperation of the free will to choose to abstain from sin.
But the notation above is a specific faith.

He also said that faith without works is no faith at all.

 

[Lisa0315]

Ask you why? Ask you why? Well, because you've met a bunch of great folks in OBOB, of course, who have given valid explanations for their beliefs . . . silly wabbit!

Exactly! I am a self-appointed ambassador to let others know how great you guys are.

Seriously, I really do hope to generate questions from other non-Catholics and perhaps create some unity between us all.

 

[Lisa0315]

Lisa, I don't know if you said this before or not, but do you trust in the ecumenical councils? If so, which ones do you trust in?

I do not know what those are. 'splain Lucy!

 

[Vedant]

Ask you why? Ask you why? Well, because you've met a bunch of great folks in OBOB, of course, who have given valid explanations for their beliefs . . . silly wabbit!

I learned a ton here hehe.

 

[Carrye]

I do not know what those are. 'splain Lucy!

The Ecumenical Councils were meetings of the Church regarding doctrine. They answered pressing questions - what is Jesus' nature? Did he always exist? Was he truly human? The Trinity, what?! etc.

The first seven were: http://www.patriarchate.org/councils/ecumenical_councils.html

 

[Vedant]

Lisa,

You mentioned the Nicene creed earlier, and I think you believe it. Well the Nicene creed was developed out of two ecumenical councils, the first was at Nicaea in 325 AD, and the second was at Constantinople in 381 AD. This creed in meaning is the same creed that almost all Christians use. Many Protestants don't like the idea of using church tradition that isn't directly in the Bible. However, you won't find the word Trinity used to describe God in the Bible, but still most Christians believe this by professing the creed.

 

[Lisa0315]

The Ecumenical Councils were meetings of the Church regarding doctrine. They answered pressing questions - what is Jesus' nature? Did he always exist? Was he truly human? The Trinity, what?! etc.

The first seven were: http://www.patriarchate.org/councils/ecumenical_councils.html

Excellent reading. Where can I find the Apostolic Canons that were referenced. I think there were 108 of them?

 

[Vedant]

http://www.piar.hu/councils/

Catholics have 21.
Eastern Orthodoxy share the first 7 with Catholics.
Oriental Orthodoxy generally shares the first 3 with Eastern Orthodoxy and Catholics.

 

[Carrye]

Excellent reading. Where can I find the Apostolic Canons that were referenced. I think there were 108 of them?

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-07/anf07-50.htm#P7376_2463844

 

[stray bullet]

It should be noted, if it hasn't already, that the Ecumenical councils were not mere meetings- but gathering of men who were the successors of the first apostles. They were inspired by the Holy Spirit and the result of the councils were inspired rulings on matters of faith.

 

[Lisa0315]

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-07/anf07-50.htm#P7376_2463844

Who wrote this? I see a reference to Peter. Is this THE Peter???

 

[Carrye]

Who wrote this? I see a reference to Peter. Is this THE Peter???

It's intended to be. It sounds as if scholars differ on whether it was THE Peter or someone who wrote in his name . . . like people did with Paul.

 

[Vedant]

This one from the 2nd ecumenical council is neat:

Canon 3:
Because it is new Rome, the bishop of Constantinople is to enjoy the privileges of honour after the bishop of Rome.