Catholicism wrong?

[Skripper]

There are no areas of doctrine that I disagree on with my pastor, no. There are other areas outside of doctrine that I disagree with him about, namely the role of the Catholic church in Christianity.

Yet, isn't your pastor more "mature" in faith than yourself? Why is he wrong and you not wrong?

I do not believe that Baptists have everything doctrinally correct, as in perfectly correct. I believe that the church I attend, not the denomination, is as close as it gets. If I thought otherwise, I would not go to that church.

I see. So, the Baptist Church does not have it right. And neither does your particular church, which you attend. But it is "as close as it gets." Does that mean that this particular local church, more so than other churches you've seen/attended, teaches "more" of what you, personally agree with? Does this then mean that you, personally, have it right? If not, then what, exactly, do you have "wrong"? What do you believe that is actually wrong? If you do not believe anything that is wrong . . . the only conclusion one can draw is that you, personally, have it "right," while all the rest of us . . . everyone else . . . every church, every denomination and every Christian that disagrees with you in some area . . . has something wrong, because you have it right. Either that . . . or you have something wrong. Which is it? It must be one or the other, if what you say is true.

 

[Asimis]

Again, I know my Master's voice. I am actually a little surprised at how much you doubt this.

I rest my case.


As.

 

[Vedant]

It's a little disheartening to NOT pray to God directly, but that's just me. I mean, I want to know I am praying directly to God... and another disheartening thing is that I can never be as close to Him as the clergy, whereas a Protestant views this differently.

Have you thought about it the other way around?

It's disheartening to not be able to talk to your friends and relatives once they've died. At least it's disheartening for me . If you believe they're alive and not dead, one can talk to them, because the're alive. After all, talking to dead people is silly.

 

[Skripper]

Have you thought about it the other way around?

It's disheartening to not be able to talk to your friends and relatives once they've died. At least it's disheartening for me . If you believe they're alive and not dead, one can talk to them, because the're alive. After all, talking to dead people is silly.

Yup . . . Communion of Saints.

 

[Vedant]

indeed, to beleive in the apparitions of Mary, to pray to the saints, to pray to Mary is optional. Some people feel closer to God if they pray to Mary, others don't (including I). Another thing is that there are cathoic churches that offer a service before and/or after the mass similar to the worship service some protestant churches give, and in some churches people are singing songs and claping hands (but we don't have shoutong priests)
The Rosary is an optional prayer, you don't have to pray it to be catholic. The confession to a priest is what jesus told us to do, and we have evidence that the first christians confessed their sinns. Actually, if a christian sinnes in a serious matter, he had to confess repeatelty his/her sin in front of the WHOLE community, not to the priest alone. Later, the popes and the bishops deceided that the people who sinned would have to confess their sins to the priest alone. Of coyrse, if you sin and repent, you don't have to go to confession to be forgiven, but through your sin you damaged the community(church) as well, and this is where the prist comes in. I hope I helped you in a way God bless

I have a question. Jesus said to confess to each other. Why do Catholics only confess to priests and not to each other?

 

[Skripper]

Catholics confess to each other. I've made some pretty big "confessions" to fellow Catholics and to non-Catholics alike. It's just not a sacrament . . . unless one of them happens to be an ordained priest.

 

[AureateDawn]

Unfortunately, this thread has gotten way out of my league, and all the debate is really, really disheartening. I'm out of this thread. =P

 

[Skripper]

Me too . . . I'm tired. Going to bed. Nite all.

 

[AureateDawn]

I meant beyond tonight. I meant, like, not coming back.

 

[Lisa0315]

Yet, isn't your pastor more "mature" in faith than yourself? Why is he wrong and you not wrong?



I see. So, the Baptist Church does not have it right. And neither does your particular church, which you attend. But it is "as close as it gets." Does that mean that this particular local church, more so than other churches you've seen/attended, teaches "more" of what you, personally agree with? Does this then mean that you, personally, have it right? If not, then what, exactly, do you have "wrong"? What do you believe that is actually wrong? If you do not believe anything that is wrong . . . the only conclusion one can draw is that you, personally, have it "right," while all the rest of us . . . everyone else . . . every church, every denomination and every Christian that disagrees with you in some area . . . has something wrong, because you have it right. Either that . . . or you have something wrong. Which is it? It must be one or the other, if what you say is true.

The problem with this discussion is that you as a Catholic believe in the infallibility of your doctrine. I do not believe in the infallibility of anything except God. For me to say that I am without error is ridiculous. For me to say that my church, my pastor, or any person except Jesus Christ was infallible is ridiculous. So, again, this is where we part ways. I am not calling you or your belief ridiculous. I am saying that for me, emphasis on me, it is ridiculous. I cannot even imagine believing that ALL doctrine is correct. I don't believe that any of us have it ALL right, but you do believe that, so what can I say?

 

[Lisa0315]

I rest my case.


As.

Sorry, that one went over my head. How did you rest your case?

 

[Vedant]

That was the belief of the first Christians! Readn St Ignatius of Antioch or St Justin Martyr- they describe the early Christian worship of the 1st-2nd century and - guess what- it is the Catholic Mass! The Holy Sacrifice!

The greatest act of worship to God is the offering up of the Divine Son to the Father- surely no human worship can ever match that act Christ accomplished on the cross? And so the priest offers to God the Father the perfect sacrifice of Christ on the cross for the remission of our sins, the adoration of God, the asking of petitions and the thanksgiving for God's blessings.

The practices of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church are those from 33ad, this is the Church Christ founded- and it existed long before the New Testemant and long before any man-made "Christian sects" were founded.

We are not talking an indifference in worship and an "all are equally pleasing to God" attitude- NO THAT IS AN ERROR.
For If you reject that Church, the Catholic Church which Christ founded in full knowledge for some man made and man entertaining "church" with belifs contrary to those true beliefs of the Catholic Church - then you profit damnation upon yourself.

The matter is serious.
The Catholic Church is truth and is the continuation of Christ's mystical body in the world. Communion with the Church in this life brings eternal communion with Christ in the next. Reject the communion with Christ's body on earth (in full knowledge), the next life will echo that rejection for all eternity.

I say this not in anger or one-up-manship but in charity and it is true charity, for sharing the truth is always charitable to the other's soul.

Easy.

Catholic = Christian
Protestant = Christian

Maybe I see this from an outside perspective, but the value of Protestantism is that it gives people many options and choices of Christianity. Not everyone can join the Catholic church in this instant, and some may never be able to. But, many of these people could comfortably join a Protestant church, and I would say that this is better than not having a church. The Catholics might say that having a choice is not an option, but to the Catholics I say that this makes them more convicted. Given the number of churches and religions that there are, for some reason they've chosen this institution amongst every other one. Well, at least this is truer of converts.

 

[Vedant]

Feel? Your whole faith life is based on feelings? Your going to run into trouble real fast if you base anything at all on feelings.

I disagree.

 

[Vedant]

I get what you are saying...but I dont quite understand it...

I don't get it very well either, but this is more of a reason of why priests must be men, not women, at least from how I understand it.

Often people misconstrue the Bible saying that women are not allowed to speak and therefore it is only men that can preach. Really, though everyone can preach outside of mass, and you're called to do this.

 

[Vedant]

All of this has gotten so confusing to me and the majority of it is only people talking that are biased. If I can get a whole crapload of Bible quotes that are used in context that strongly supports one side and mostly gets rid of the validation of the other side, I will become whichever side has the Biblical verses to prove it, as the Bible is God's word and it is something to abide by fully.

Hmmm. I suggest you do what I did to understand many Catholicisms. Learn about Eastern Christianity. I don't think there are many Eastern Catholics on this forum, so what you are getting is mainly a Roman Catholic perspective. Anyway, all of these things in general are also in many other different versions of Christianity. The whole point about mass being worship and prayer, the purpose of confession, baptism, ordaining priests who can only be men, etc was much easier for me to understand by the Eastern way.

 

[Vedant]

Beats me. I am new at this and have only Matthew 1-12 thus far.

EDIT: Is what the pope says "law"? I don't get the whole pope thing. Heck, I get little of Catholic stuff.

What they you to know is that the Bible was written by many people in legendary and ancient times. However, the Bible as we know it today was constructed by Christians after the time of Jesus and the 12 disciples. So anyone that does trust the Bible trusts in these early church fathers, a few hundred years after Jesus' time on Earth, knew what they were doing in picking which writings to contain in the Bible.

 

[Vedant]

72 books.

Around 81 if you're Ethiopian Orthodox.

 

[Asimis]

Maybe I see this from an outside perspective, but the value of Protestantism is that it gives people many options and choices of Christianity. Not everyone can join the Catholic church in this instant, and some may never be able to. But, many of these people could comfortably join a Protestant church, and I would say that this is better than not having a church. The Catholics might say that having a choice is not an option, but to the Catholics I say that this makes them more convicted. Given the number of churches and religions that there are, for some reason they've chosen this institution amongst every other one.

Why can't they join The Catholic Church but can join a protestant church?


As.

 

[AureateDawn]

*pops in* I lied... I didn't leave. I want to, because this thread is now beyond me, but I can't because I am trying to fully undertsatnd Protestant vs. Catholic so I can make a sound decision.

 

[Asimis]

What they you to know is that the Bible was written by many people in legendary and ancient times. However, the Bible as we know it today was constructed by Christians after the time of Jesus and the 12 disciples. So anyone that does trust the Bible trusts in these early church fathers, a few hundred years after Jesus' time on Earth, knew what they were doing in picking which writings to contain in the Bible.

Ya and they picked 72 books, not 66.


As.