Catholicism wrong?

[Lisa0315]

Are you actually claiming that the Holy Spirit leads individuals, personally, to determine what is and isn't authentic God-breathed Scripture???

Yes I am, but...one must be in the will of God in order to not be deceived.

 

[Skripper]

Yes I am, but...one must be in the will of God in order to not be deceived.

I see. Can you, personally, do this? Does the Holy Spirit lead you, personally, to correctly discern what is and isn't the authentic written word of God, in the form of Sacred Scripture?

 

[Lisa0315]

Hmmmm....look at a tree. When the tree first starts, it starts building its trunk, then branches start forming and then more branches, then even more, the farther out you get, the farther you get away from the trunk.

Now, what would constitute our "trunk" Where did all the protestant churches come from? If you will notice, there is remnants of the Catholic Church in each protestant church you walk into. The Protestant Churches are your branches, and the trunk is the Catholic Church. The root is Jesus.

Well said!

 

[GraceInHim]

72 books.

got my new version

 

[Skripper]

got my new version

 

[Lisa0315]

I see. Can you, personally, do this? Does the Holy Spirit lead you, personally, to correctly discern what is and isn't the authentic written word of God, in the form of Sacred Scripture?

Yes, in a limited way. Limited to where I am as a Christian in my daily walk as well as my maturity as a Christian. I am not claiming that I could read all of the writings of the Catholic church and discern which is Holy Scripture and which is not. I am saying that there are those who can, those whose maturity is greater than mine, and they do this through the Holy Spirit

It was the Holy Spirit that showed me that the general teachings against Catholicism was wrong.

I believe in the scholarship of the KJV. The Holy Spirit guides me more in the interpetation and application of scripture.

 

[Miss Shelby]

It was the Holy Spirit that showed me that the general teachings against Catholicism was wrong.

Generally speaking, teachings against Catholicism are wrong.

Michelle

 

[Lisa0315]

Generally speaking, teachings against Catholicism are wrong.

Michelle

I agree, but still I was taught some pretty negative things. My views (now) of Catholics are pretty different from my pastor, my church, my denomination, and even from a good friend who is a former Catholic. I believe that I was shown the truth by the Holy Spirit. Admittedly, there are still some things that I do not agree with, but I no longer feel as if I am supposed to fight against Catholics either.

 

[Miss Shelby]

I wish more people saw it that way, Lisa.

 

[AureateDawn]

Lisa, how did you know which to be? This is a huge thing for that I cannot decide on.

 

[Asimis]

I believe that I was shown the truth by the Holy Spirit. Admittedly, there are still some things that I do not agree with, but I no longer feel as if I am supposed to fight against Catholics either.

This is why I said what I said a few posts earlier. What you mean by being lead by the Holy Spirit is just your subjective feelings and what you mean by agreeing with, are things that conform to those feelings. You have no objective basis for knowing wether or not you are being lead by the Holy Spirit other than your own feelings.

But if for feelings were, we would all be doing whatever we want. The real question is not wether you agree or disagree with this or that. It is wether or not God has spoken, wether or not The Bible is his message and who has authority to speak in God's behalf. Those are the things we are trying to get thru in this thread. If God has spoken, then what we feel or agree with is not really relevant.


As.

 

[Lisa0315]

Lisa, how did you know which to be? This is a huge thing for that I cannot decide on.

Very easy for me. I allowed my husband to pick the church.

But that is not your question...

My advice would be to pray diligently about which church you should attend. Second, there are some fundemental things that you should look for in a church.
Number one is sound doctrine. The Nicene Creed is a good place to start. Then, know if the church supports things that are against God. Abortion and Homosexuality come to mind.
Number two is love. Within that church, there should be a welcoming and loving spirit.

You are right to be cautious and careful in selecting your church. If you will PM me with your hometown, I can probably give you a church to visit. My brother is a minister and I have asked for a churches in a half dozen locations for other people here. He has always been able to give me a contact.

Lisa

 

[Skripper]

Yes, in a limited way. Limited to where I am as a Christian in my daily walk as well as my maturity as a Christian.

Well, that's kind of vague. So I'm not quite sure exactly what that entails. I mean, in a "limited way," I can, too. For example, given a copy of the NY Times and a Bible, I can make a pretty good discernment as to which is authentic, God-breathed Scripture. So could you be a little more specific?

I am not claiming that I could read all of the writings of the Catholic church and discern which is Holy Scripture and which is not.

Could you sift through the writings of the early Christians and discern which, if any, are Holy Scripture, based solely on the Holy Spirit communicating this to you, directly, on an individual basis? If so, how would you authenticate this?

I am saying that there are those who can, those whose maturity is greater than mine, and they do this through the Holy Spirit

Who, specifically?

It was the Holy Spirit that showed me that the general teachings against Catholicism was wrong.

Well, while I'm not sure, with 100% certainty, that it was the Holy Spirit that Personally showed you this, on an individual level, I'm still glad to hear this.

I believe in the scholarship of the KJV.

Again . . . why?

The Holy Spirit guides me more in the interpetation and application of scripture.

Could you demonstrate this? For example, if you and I look at the same scriptural passage, yet come to conflicting interpretations . . . have you any way of demonstrating that you are Spirit-led and I am not? And/or that your interpretation is correct and mine is not?

 

[Lisa0315]

This is why I said what I said a few posts earlier. What you mean by being lead by the Holy Spirit is just your subjective feelings and what you mean by agreeing with, are things that conform to those feelings. You have no objective basis for knowing wether or not you are being lead by the Holy Spirit other than your own feelings.

But if for feelings were, we would all be doing whatever we want. The real question is not wether you agree or disagree with this or that. It is wether or not God has spoken, wether or not The Bible is his message and who has authority to speak in God's behalf. Those are the things we are trying to get thru in this thread. If God has spoken, then what we feel or agree with is not really relevant.


As.

hmm...no. Sorry, but no. It is not feelings. I know the voice of my Master. Are you telling me that God does not speak to you? (Not in an audible voice of course)

 

[Skripper]

hmm...no. Sorry, but no. It is not feelings. I know the voice of my Master. Are you telling me that God does not speak to you? (Not in an audible voice of course)

And if both yourself and Asimis each believe you are "hearing" the Master's Voice, yet you disagree with each other . . . who is correct in what they are "hearing" and interpreting? How can we know? Are you automatically "right" and he "wrong"? He "right" and you "wrong"? Remember . . . each believes they are "hearing" the Master's Voice? Who's got it right . . . and who does not? Can we know? Or is the "other person" automatically "wrong"?

 

[Lisa0315]

Well, that's kind of vague. So I'm not quite sure exactly what that entails. I mean, in a "limited way," I can, too. For example, given a copy of the NY Times and a Bible, I can make a pretty good discernment as to which is authentic, God-breathed Scripture. So could you be a little more specific?



Could you sift through the writings of the early Christians and discern which are Holy Scripture?



Who, specifically?



Well, while I'm not sure, with 100% certainty, that it was the Holy Spirit that Personally showed you this, on an individual level, I'm still glad to hear this.



Again . . . why?



Could you demonstrate this? For example, if you and I look at the samp scriptural passage, yet come to conflicting interpretations . . . have you any way of demonstrating that you are Spirit-led and I am not? And/or that your interpretation is correct and mine is not?

I tried to explain it as well as I could. I am saying that I have some discernment but not as much as someone who is more mature in the faith than I am. Those who are much, much more mature than I am could discern this.

Where there is disagreement between believers, we are instructed to resolve the disagreement by praying together and reading scripture. (It is found in the Book of Acts. I will have to find the exact chapter and verse) So, you and I could have TOTALLY different interpetations, but if we are BOTH open to the will of God, meaning, there is no pride, that we are both willing to admit error, yes, disagreement over interpetation can be resolved.

 

[Lisa0315]

And if both yourself and Asimis each believe you are "hearing" the Master's Voice, yet you disagree with each other . . . who is correct in what they are "hearing" and interpreting? How can we know?

See above (or below) post. We are instructed on how to end disagreements between believers. We are to pray and read the Bible together.

 

[Asimis]

Are you telling me that God does not speak to you? (Not in an audible voice of course)

Of course he does. In fact, there are three possibilities here.

1-God
2-Satan
3-Your own concience

Any of the three can be guide you into something. The question is, how do you know which is whch? How do you know that you are on the right path/interpretation?


As.

 

[Skripper]

See above (or below) post. We are instructed on how to end disagreements between believers. We are to pray and read the Bible together.

Why? Does the Bible say, somewhere, that this is what we shoud do? I'm pretty familiar with the Bible, and I don't know where it says that, specifically. Or does the Bible refer us to the Church in such situations? What if, after praying and reading the Bible together, we still disagree on some important doctrinal issue . . . what then? Or . . . what if we don't have a Bible? Or what if we are illiterate, and can't read? Some folks are, you know.

 

[Skripper]

I tried to explain it as well as I could. I am saying that I have some discernment but not as much as someone who is more mature in the faith than I am. Those who are much, much more mature than I am could discern this.

Who? Can you name one person on the earth that can, infallibly, do this? One person that can correctly discern what is and isn't Scriputre . . . all on his/her own, while personally led by the Holy Spirit? One person?

Where there is disagreement between believers, we are instructed to resolve the disagreement by praying together and reading scripture. (It is found in the Book of Acts. I will have to find the exact chapter and verse)

No, the Bible does not say this. I believe you may be referring to Acts chapter 17 . . . specifically around verse 11 . . . but that's not what it's saying, if read in context, from the beginning of the chapter.

So, you and I could have TOTALLY different interpetations, but if we are BOTH open to the will of God, meaning, there is no pride, that we are both willing to admit error, yes, disagreement over interpetation can be resolved.

And if we set our pride aside, and still disagree?