Catholicism - one true religion?

[Brother Charlie]

I hold on to both Scripture and what is taught to me by the Holy Spirit. The only infallible tools I have access to.

Says who?

 

[Lifesaver]

You're talking about ones who were to take care of the food distibution and such right?

Part of the clergyman's work back then involved this.
But he was also essential to the celebration of Mass, which is already mentioned in the Bible, and explained beyond all doubt by the Apostolic Fathers (those who had been disciples of the Apostles).

whoops lost me again. Where is that part? Is it in Acts? Is this the part about the different languges being spoken?

Yes, when then Spirit came down and the Apostles learned foreign languages.

Ok now why would it matter who the leader in Rome was? Seriously. Even granting that Peter may have been the Bishop of Rome, (in the New Testament I seem to see the Apostle James as the go to guy more then Peter or even the Apostle Paul but that's just me) but why did it matter about Rome? Wouldn't the Orthodox Church have just as much right to be the successor of Peter? Just something I've wondered about, I don't mean to be offensive.

Even the Orthodox Patriarchs (well, at least those who were Patriarchs before their churches went into schism) admitted that authority of the Pope, for he was the successor of St. Peter, the leader of the Apostles, to whom the keys to the kingdom of Heaven were given.

 

[Lifesaver]

I hold on to both Scripture and what is taught to me by the Holy Spirit. The only infallible tools I have access to.

Many other Christians make the same grave mistake you do Crispie.
They think that their opinions were inspired by the Holy Spirit, and therefore think they are infallible.
But when we realize that there are thousands of different and contradictory opinions, we conclude that it is not the Holy Spirit guiding them, but their own opinions. Which is all you base yourself on.

 

[Brother Charlie]

Yep, no Christians except those within protestantism rejects that peter's see is at rome (except for the Copts, who have an odd belief system).

 

[Crispie]

So you say these "opinions" of an average man who has experienced the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is less reliable in teaching God's word than the Pope? Though scripture says otherwise.

 

[Brother Charlie]

crispie, please answer the question i posted

 

[Crispie]

Oh woops, forgot to respond to that one lol. Says God.

 

[Brother Charlie]

Oh woops, forgot to respond to that one lol. Says God.

He did? Did he like open up the clouds and speak to you like in Monty Python and the Holy Grail?

 

[Bevlina]

I hold on to both Scripture and what is taught to me by the Holy Spirit. The only infallible tools I have access to.

Crispie, catholics believe in the Holy Spirit too. They also believe in the Fruit and Gifts of the Spirit.

 

[Crispie]

I know that Catholics believe in the Holy Spirit. As far as God stating it yes, since he in the bible gave us 2 reliable sources to use. The Holy Spirit and Scripture.

 

[Bevlina]

I know that Catholics believe in the Holy Spirit. As far as God stating it yes, since he in the bible gave us 2 reliable sources to use. The Holy Spirit and Scripture.

True Crispie. And, the catholics do believe the same you know.

 

[Crispie]

Unfortunately the ones in this thread seem to be suggesting something else. =\ . I think its because I challenged the "uniqueness" of the Pope and how an ordinary man can be as great faithed and spiritually gifted as the Pope, if not better!

 

[Brother Charlie]

Unfortunately the ones in this thread seem to be suggesting something else. =\ . I think its because I challenged the "uniqueness" of the Pope and how an ordinary man can be as great faithed and spiritually gifted as the Pope, if not better!

the pope is the visible leader of the church on earth. He is just as sinful as anybody else.

I am just annoyed because you havent answered my question yet.

 

[Crispie]

What is your question? I thought I answered it, but I guess I addressed the wrong question.

 

[Myah]

Unfortunately the ones in this thread seem to be suggesting something else. =\ . I think its because I challenged the "uniqueness" of the Pope and how an ordinary man can be as great faithed and spiritually gifted as the Pope, if not better!

IHMO:
The pope is Unique because he is the head of several diocese (sp?) and parishes, while in most other denominations, one man or woman, the minister, heads a single congregation. The pope is chosen from several archbishops and is usually the one whom it is felt is the most capable of handling that responsibility.

 

[n2wolves]

Im just going to jump in the middle of things I guess... If Christ appointed Peter to be the head of the Catholic Church then why 5 verses later does Christ call Peter Satan?

Mat 16:21 From that time began Jesus to show unto his disciples, that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and the third day be raised up.

Mat 16:22 And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall never be unto thee.

Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art a stumbling-block unto me: for thou mindest not the things of God, but the things of men.

And why if Peter was the head of the Church did he not write more of the New Testament than what he did..When Paul wrote most of it. I mean if Peter being that important to be the head of the church on earth...wouldn't he write more than what he did?

 

[Lifesaver]

So you say these "opinions" of an average man who has experienced the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is less reliable in teaching God's word than the Pope? Though scripture says otherwise.

You and others who suposedly believe like you can't even agree on what Scripture says.
No, the opinion of a baptised person is not always right; it is in fact often wrong, and this is obvious.
You have now accused the Bible of error by stating that it teaches this obviously false doctrine.

Until you can honestly come down from your made-up "inspiration of the Holy Spirit", which for some reason works on you and not on all other Protestants, there is no point in discussing.
You clearly believe yourself to be infallible, and thus logic and Scripture cannot convince you otherwise, unless you are willing to deal with the fact that your opinion is often wrong.

 

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

Your post doesn't make the least sense.

Do you want the word "pope"? That isn't in the Bible. As the word "Trinity" also isn't there.

But every characteristic of the Church Jesus estabilished matches the Catholic Church: the Eucharist (partaking of the body and blood of Jesus Christ), authority of the Apostles and those apointed by them, physical Church (and not a gnostic, invisible one), infallible Church (the gates of Hell shall not prevail against her), etc.

And when we read what the direct successors of the Apostles wrote, then there is no doubt the Catholic Church is the true one (they already used the term "Catholic" by the way).

Wholy different from non-Catholic churches, all of which admit to being fallible, and many of them don't even have authorities (much less with any valid priesthood), and many which claim to be purely spiritual, just like the Church Gnostics believe in, as Petr made evident.

Please don't think I am pouting my nose here. I have read the Holy Bible(KJV) and have come to understand the objective history of Christianity and the influence of Rome. I just ask a few questions here for my own clarification because it seems the Protestants are actually following the Bible correctly. Here are my questions:
1. Does Jesus consider Rome has a holy city?
2. What is the proof from the Holy Bible for considering the Blessed Mother Mary as a mediatrix on par with Jesus,who can also be worshipped upon?
3. If mortal humans are inherently sinners, why is Mary an exception to it? Isn't she also an human saved by the grace of God just like any other Christian?
4. After Rome adopted Christianity, did Rome become Christian or Christianity become Roman?
5. Is early Christianity, i.e., during the times of persecution, the same as the Christianity that became the state religion after Constantine declared it Rome's religion?
6. Why are images of Christ hung on a Cross still found in Catholic Churches while Christ has already Risen and ascended to Heaven? Is it not wrong to have statues showing Christ's crucifixion then?
7. What is the basis of worshipping Mother Mary with the child Christ Jesus while it has no scriptural evidence by the apostles? Doesn't the mother-child worship look like a version of an ancient Roman pagan belief?
8. Don't you give credence to the thought that early Christianity(by which I mean before Rome accepted it) got transformed into some other form of religion by the addition of Roman myths?

I asked these questions with no intention to hurt your beliefs. I asked them because if I want to accept Jesus I would rather become a protestant instead of becoming a pagan Roman unless Catholics can provide evidence for the Holiness of the city of Rome, for example. Thanks.

 

[Lifesaver]

Constantine did not make Christianity Rome's religion. He gave Christians freedom to worship. It was Theodosius who made it the official religion of the empire.
Check on your facts.
And read some of the writings of the Apostolic Fathers, direct descendants of the Apostles, centuries before Constantine.

And I must say it is rather curious that a Hindu would be such an adamant attacker of the Papacy?
Have Protestantism, Easter Orthodoxy, Islam and Paganism found their common enemy?

 

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

Constantine did not make Christianity Rome's religion. He gave Christians freedom to worship. It was Theodosius who made it the official religion of the empire.
Check on your facts.
And read some of the writings of the Apostolic Fathers, direct descendants of the Apostles, centuries before Constantine.

And I must say it is rather curious that a Hindu would be such an adamant attacker of the Papacy?
Have Protestantism, Easter Orthodoxy, Islam and Paganism found their common enemy?

I was not attacking the Papacy in any way Lifesaver. I am sorry if I had done it. I just thought that if I were to become a Christian I should give more importance to The Word of God(Holy Bible, which cannot be false) than the writings of the direct descendants of the Apostles.

Even Jesus does not ask His disciples to exalt Mother Mary to such a godly-entity as is done by the Catholics.

Jesus warns His desciples not to follow the heathen ways of vain repitition of mantras etc. But I find Catholics using the Rosary bead to repeat "Hail Mary..." again and again.

Those were my serious questions. One day I might change my heart and might accept the Lord Jesus as my Savior. On that day, I will start believing in the Holy Bible alone and not in a Rome-centric pagano-Christian religion.

Rome was the oppressor of Christians. While it is highly appreciated that the pagan Romans turned from their sinful ways and accepted Jesus, isn't it too much to exalt Rome as the Holy See and such?

Is Rome holier than the birth-place of Jesus?

I think I got my history straight.

Is Bible the infallible Word of God or is it just another Christian book which can be referred to like the writings of the Apostles descendants?If it is the later you are more like a Hindu brother cuz Hindus don't use one single book to base their faith. They use those books which came many centuries later than the Vedas as sacred. Roman Catholicism seems like a mild form of Paganism to me. So, if I want to leave my pagan Hindu ways and become a God-worshipping Christian, why should I join something similar to my own beliefs, though not in many ways. Explain to me why is Mary on par with Jesus? Does St. Peter state in the Bible. Well, if you tell me "How do you know the Bible is true?', then the very foundations upon which your faith is based starts to shake.