Catholicism - one true religion?

Daegor

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This is a response to a comment posted on another thread. I'm not sure if this is the right forum for it so please move it if it isn't.

Atomagenesis said:
It's not really an opinion, it's a fact. God will help you understand it if you ask for the gift of understanding and faith. Why don't you ask the one true ever-living God yourself? He will reveal it to you. He never abandons his children.

I used to be into the occult somewhat as well, but until one asks God to reveal the truth to them one will not really recognize truth in its fullness because God does not force us to do anything, afterall, He gave us free will.

I can prove to you that the Catholic religion is the one true religion. Christ said if one has faith the size of a mustard seed (the smallest seed) that he can say to this tree be uprooted and cast it into the sea and it will do so. If you have faith in God nothing can harm you. If you just trust in God everything will be given unto you.
Well firstly I was a Christian once, and can't say I was impressed (I can elaborate if necessary). I have looked for the truth since, and from what I have found it really does not look like there is any absolute truth in Christianity whatsoever let alone Catholicism specifically.

So take it away.
 

caller_to_truth

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Daegor said:
This is a response to a comment posted on another thread. I'm not sure if this is the right forum for it so please move it if it isn't.

Well firstly I was a Christian once, and can't say I was impressed (I can elaborate if necessary). I have looked for the truth since, and from what I have found it really does not look like there is any absolute truth in Christianity whatsoever let alone Catholicism specifically.

So take it away.
Not suprising mate I know of many ex priests who became disillusioned with christianity.Many left the church I know some who are Muslim clerics today.there are even nuns who have taken the same stance too.
Dr Gary miller was one Of them:
G.R. Miller is a mathematician and a theologian. He was active in Christian missionary work at a particular point of his life but he soon began to discover many inconsistencies in the Bible. In 1978, he happened to read the Qur'an expecting that it, too, would contain a mixture of truth and falsehood.

He discovered to his amazement that the message of the Qur'an was precisely the same as the essence of truth that he had distilled from the Bible. He became a Muslim and since then has been active in giving public presentations on Islam including radio and television appearances. He is also the author of several articles and publications about Islam.



Dr. Jerald F. Dirks Former minister (deacon) of the United Methodist Church. He holds a Master's degree in Divinity from Harvard University and a Doctorate in Psychology from the University of Denver. Author of The Cross and the Crescent: An Interfaith Dialogue between Christianity and Islam (ISBN 1-59008-002-5 - Amana Publications, 2001). He has published over 60 articles in the field of clinical psychology, and over 150 articles on Arabian horses


peace:D
 
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Daegor

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xxdaggerxx said:
what made you hate Christianity?
Well I don't want to go into it too much now, because I'm still waiting for this proof I've been promised but I don't hate Christianity as such. I hate some things within Christianity but not Christianity as a whole. I think it has some good teachings.

A lot of things in my life contributed to the fact that I'm no longer a Christian.

Alot was to do with the behavior of the older Christians at my church, I was younger then and looked to them for example and advice. They would teach me what to do alright but never do it themselves. For example I was of course told that sex before marriage was out of the question, so I stuck to that. If I was at a club and someone made it clear to me that they wanted me to "go back for a nightcap *wink wink*" I would refuse. And as many of you will know it's not an easy thing to do, not only do you do yourself out of some "lovin" but you have to deal with your non-christian friends giving you grief about it.

However after getting to know people better I would hear more of what was going on, and everyone was at it like rabbits by all accounts. (Keeping things short) basically none of the people I looked up to followed their own teachings. Not all sex related I'm just using this as an example but so much backstabbing, gossiping, sleeping around etc all within one church.

All amongst talk of who's a better Christian than who, this person needs more faith, and my favorite phrase which I'm sure many of you will have heard before "I'm not judging you, but..."

This seemed to be the way with many of the Christians I met from church to church, they would just talk about doing good or tell other people to do it but never really pay as much attention to what they were doing as what other people were. Or they were too busy trying to "save" people.

So in the end I thought "what makes these people any different to anyone else?" and aside from Jesus (or the get out of hell free card he was used as) absolutely nothing.

For all their talk of "knowing God" and being "filled with the holy spirit" they were just the same as the sinners they were so bothered about, only difference being they would do whatever they liked but once or twice a week go and blub to Jesus about it for an hour before doing exactly the same thing the following week.

So I gave up on churches, where else could I look? The bible? I read enough of it to know that there are too many contradictions or just complete lies in it to take seriously, at least for me anyway. Apologetics are fine as long as your willing to swallow the explanations, I personally am not. And anyway why the bible? why not the Quran or the Bhagavad Gita?

The final nail in the coffin was when one of the Christians I used to hang around with became gay, the other Christians had known him all their lives but now turned their back on him. I heard it off one of the senior members of the church who saw himself as one of the "better" Christians there, his words were "oh did you hear about ****** he's one of "those" now *mincey hand gesture* I'm not speaking to him anymore"

He was a good guy but purely because of his sexual prefference he was shunned by the people he saw as his closest friends.

Like I say this is abridged but in the end I realized that Christianity was no different to any other faith. There was no power of Christ, no holy spirit, just as far as I could see a bunch of self-righteous hypocritical people convinced of their own superiority and a useless book of myths and dubious teachings.

This was all a long time ago, that was my mind set back then - I don't want to offend any Christians on here as I no longer think in such black and white terms. There are many good Christians around and the bible does have it's merits.

But it still makes the hairs stand up on the back of my neck when I hear people belittle other people's faiths or tell them they're going to hell purely on the strength of "the bible says so" as I know that argument carries little weight. It just sometimes seems that the ones that get on my nerves are the most vocal.

But this is the same when I hear someone of any faith saying that theirs is the only way.

I now have my own Ideas on the nature of the afterlife etc, it's what to me seems the most likely to be true from my personal experience and research. But I would never try and force it down someone's throat, and I'm prepared to accept the possibility that I could be wrong. After all the only people that know for sure are the dead. You can have a strong belief but nobody can be 100% certain.

I said I'd keep it short but the floodgates opened :D

Edit: Oh yeah... And there was a Catholic teacher at my primary school that used to pull our hair and sometimes even bash our faces on the desk, and tell us that if we didn't do our homework then the devil would get us... I suppose that might subconciously have some bearing on it ^_^
 
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stray bullet

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caller_to_truth said:
Not suprising mate I know of many ex priests who became disillusioned with christianity.Many left the church I know some who are Muslim clerics today.there are even nuns who have taken the same stance too.
Dr Gary miller was one Of them:
G.R. Miller is a mathematician and a theologian. He was active in Christian missionary work at a particular point of his life but he soon began to discover many inconsistencies in the Bible. In 1978, he happened to read the Qur'an expecting that it, too, would contain a mixture of truth and falsehood.

He discovered to his amazement that the message of the Qur'an was precisely the same as the essence of truth that he had distilled from the Bible. He became a Muslim and since then has been active in giving public presentations on Islam including radio and television appearances. He is also the author of several articles and publications about Islam.

And there are many Muslims who, when reading the bible, discovered that it was inerrant and not the flawed text that Islam claims it to be- and converted to Christianity :)

Some good Christian speakers have come from that. Although it is hard for a good many Muslims to admit their conversions due to the persecution they will get in Muslim nations.
I find it a did difficult to believe something is 'true' which seems to suggest Mary is part of the Christianity Trinity.
 
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stray bullet

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Daegor said:
This is a response to a comment posted on another thread. I'm not sure if this is the right forum for it so please move it if it isn't.

Well firstly I was a Christian once, and can't say I was impressed (I can elaborate if necessary). I have looked for the truth since, and from what I have found it really does not look like there is any absolute truth in Christianity whatsoever let alone Catholicism specifically.

So take it away.

The Catholic Church, which was formed from apostolic succession, has the unique ability to act as the (morally) infallible apostles did for Christianity. When Christianity was growing and Christian communities were popping up, the apostles were able to, by the Holy Spirit, clear up any disputes in what was essentially an infallible way. These instance were often recorded (usually as letters) and became part of the bible.

The apostles didn't just die out and leave Christianity to drift. This is unlike other religions which essentially left their followers to disputes and fighting. Muhammad, for example, died without having left any direction for his followers. He left a collection of writings which his followers pieced together and formed the Qur'an out of. This immediately left his followers with a dispute on who his successor should be, Sunnis and Shi'ites are the result.

The Catholic Church, Christianity, does not have this problem. Christ has apostles and when they died, they were replaced. Christ left a head of His Church, who was Peter (Matthew 16:18) and Peter's successors were the Popes.
There is infallible and objective truth, which comes from the Catholic Church.
 
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God_of_Mercy

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It seems like most of your distaste for Christianity Daegor comes from the hipocrasy of others. It must be hard for you to even think about Christianity now because all of these people. It's unfortunate there is so many "christians" and not more Christains that are true to there faith and live a more Christlike life. Though you could go to any religious place of any religion and find hypocrites .And as for contradictions and lies thats debatable:) All i can tell you is though it may be hard that dont let the hypocrites ruin of believe. Look past them and just open your eyes to what Christainity really is. Ill be praying for you :crossrc:
 
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Daegor

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stray bullet said:
The Catholic Church, Christianity, does not have this problem. Christ has apostles and when they died, they were replaced. Christ left a head of His Church, who was Peter (Matthew 16:18) and Peter's successors were the Popes.
There is infallible and objective truth, which comes from the Catholic Church.
I can't actually verify that as nobody seems to know...

The answers I've found so far are either Peter, Paul or the roman emperor Constantine.

Furthermore I have found scources that say the Catholic church was not founded until 200 years after christs death, although information on the subject is scant.

God_of_Mercy said:
It seems like most of your distaste for Christianity Daegor comes from the hipocrasy of others. It must be hard for you to even think about Christianity now because all of these people. It's unfortunate there is so many "christians" and not more Christains that are true to there faith and live a more Christlike life. Though you could go to any religious place of any religion and find hypocrites .And as for contradictions and lies thats debatable:) All i can tell you is though it may be hard that dont let the hypocrites ruin of believe. Look past them and just open your eyes to what Christainity really is.
True it was those Christians I have encountered that sparked it all off, but it has more to do with the fact that basically all I have to go on regarding Christianity is the bible. Just take for example Adam and Eve and the flood (I'll leave the rest out for now) whether you believe the apologetics or not there is enough evidence to present an extremely convincing argument against the validity of these stories. Now if you could say that the bible is flawed in some parts then who is to say that Christianity is the only truth? There could be an error on every page.

The mere fact that these stories can be so convincingly questioned and with such vast amounts of evidence throws doubt on the whole book.

Have a look around here and you'll see what I mean:

http://www.christianforums.com/f70-creation-evolution.html

You don't have to believe the arguments but they seem pretty sound.

God_of_Mercy said:
Ill be praying for you :crossrc:
I appreciate the thought. :)
 
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xxdaggerxx

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jesues wants us to live by faith, not by scientific prove or if christianity is more logical then other religions. jesues is the best 'christian' in the world, its much better to walk in his footsteps then any one else. Jesues is what christianity is all about not the people in your church.

maybe this will help:
http://www.icr.org/
http://www.pb.org/science.html
http://christiananswers.net/creation/
 
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Daegor

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xxdaggerxx said:
jesues wants us to live by faith, not by scientific prove or if christianity is more logical then other religions. jesues is the best 'christian' in the world, its much better to walk in his footsteps then any one else. Jesues is what christianity is all about not the people in your church.

maybe this will help:
http://www.icr.org/
http://www.pb.org/science.html
http://christiananswers.net/creation/http://christiananswers.net/creation/
Yeah I'm beginning to think I shouldn't have mentioned them. Again that sparked it off but it's mainly to do with the fact of little evidence, bible mistakes blah blah etc.

I don't believe in Jesus, not in the same way you do anyway so it's a bit difficult to live by faith alone. You might as well tell me to believe in santa claus to be honest.

As for the links, well they're the same people that would have me believe that all dinosaurs were vegetarians when they lived in eden. Have you seen the teeth on a T-rex?
 
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stray bullet

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Daegor said:
I can't actually verify that as nobody seems to know...

The answers I've found so far are either Peter, Paul or the roman emperor Constantine.

Furthermore I have found scources that say the Catholic church was not founded until 200 years after christs death, although information on the subject is scant.

No, Peter was the first Pope, the head of the Christian Church. We have a list of his successors, actually.
Paul never met Christ and Constantine wasn't even a Christian. That is, supposedly until he was on his death bed.

Check out the bible, Peter was the head of the Church :)
 
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caller_to_truth

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stray bullet said:
No, Peter was the first Pope, the head of the Christian Church. We have a list of his successors, actually.
Paul never met Christ and Constantine wasn't even a Christian. That is, supposedly until he was on his death bed.

Check out the bible, Peter was the head of the Church :)
stray bullet said:
Check out the bible, Peter was the head of the Church
Was it the same Peter who betrayed Jesusthe one who Jesus said was going to betray him in the last minute?
Peace:D
 
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stray bullet

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caller_to_truth said:
Was it the same Peter who betrayed Jesusthe one who Jesus said was going to betray him in the last minute?
Peace:D

You mean got scared when his life was threatened and denied Christ? Yes. He lived on and headed the Church, helping to grow the Christian faith. However, he like many of the apostles, eventually were martyred, sometimes horribly.

The funny thing about Peter was, that he was able, by the Holy Spirit, to figure out Who Christ was. The Son of God.

"And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." - Matthew 16:16-17

Christ asked Peter who he thought He was. No one told Peter, as we clearly see in "for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee"

Islam, which claims that calling someone a "son of God" was just a common saying for a prophet, fails here. Indeed, this wasn't a common saying. It was a revelation of Christ's divine nature unto Peter by the power of the Holy Spirit, by God, "but my Father which is in heaven". Why would God use that saying if He didn't mean it? If God didn't want people to call prophets sons of God, Peter would not have been revealed Christ's nature like that.

We see here, revealed from God unto Peter, that Christ is the Son of God. And Christ, not correcting Peter, but blessing him and confirming that this was a true and divine revelation.
 
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xxdaggerxx

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As for the links, well they're the same people that would have me believe that all dinosaurs were vegetarians when they lived in eden. Have you seen the teeth on a T-rex?
ahah, well when god cursed the world (because of man) then i think animals ate other animals and the T -rex developed those teeth. There are tons of information in those links alot of things i did'nt know.
Most of christianity is very real, not from books or what other people tell you, i have enough prove of god, he has been with me everyday of my life and when i speak he listens and actually replies (not in a physical way of cause)! thats all i need, and when you expirence god, thats all the prove you'll ever need. ;) .

if contradictions you found are still nagging , check this out:
http://christiananswers.net/menu-at1.html
srcoll down too Inerrancy or Bible "Contradictions" & Puzzles
 
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Daegor

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xxdaggerxx said:
ahah, well when god cursed the world (because of man) then i think animals ate other animals and the T -rex developed those teeth.
Developed? Are you saying that the T-rex evolved to suit it's surroundings?

Or are you saying that God suddenly changed them? If so then that's supposition and far less likely than the idea that they were just predators to begin with.

xxdaggerxx said:
There are tons of information in those links alot of things i did'nt know.
Most of christianity is very real, not from books or what other people tell you, i have enough prove of god, he has been with me everyday of my life and when i speak he listens and actually replies (not in a physical way of cause)! thats all i need, and when you expirence god, thats all the prove you'll ever need. ;) .
What makes you think I don't? I may not be Christian anymore but I'm still religious. The only differences is where your experiencing God, you would probably say that I'm experiencing a demon. But as you say it is all the proof I'll ever need.

xxdaggerxx said:
if contradictions you found are still nagging , check this out:
http://christiananswers.net/menu-at1.html
srcoll down too Inerrancy or Bible "Contradictions" & Puzzles
Look if 9 years of looking into this sort of thing hasn't convinced me then some Christian propaganda and a few dodgy theories won't change a thing. I've heard most of these arguments before and I'm still not convinced.

Usually at this point people quote something like:

"He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that
they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with
their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them"

No sign of that proof I was originally after either...
 
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