Catholic?

[URA]

Hi
Im wondering if i should become catholic. I like so much about it and agree with a lot of things. BUt how can i know those missing books are really taken from the bible, if its ok to pray to saints, purgatory...and being in the church but not 'active'? I just wanna know your thoughts/ And this is the church apparently that peter founded and the true church

Greetings! As a Catholic & trying to be an evangelist for the faith, I'm very excited to hear about your interest in Catholic Christianity!

There's 3 books that you really should read: The first is "A Biblical Defense of Catholicism", by Dave Armstrong. The author was an evangelical Protestant who wanted to do an in-depth Bible study to disprove Catholicism, and about a year later, he converted. This book is about 350 pages (if I recall correctly; I know it's big!), and it's the most thorough piece of apologetics I've ever seen. It goes in incredible detail of all sorts of "Catholic" teachings, such as tradition, purgatory, and so on, with quotations from Church fathers, Church councils, commentators throughout history (Catholic & non-Catholic), Protestant study Bible notes, and so on. It can be hard to read, but if you (or anyone!) is really looking for the most Biblical Church, this is the book to use. I've already handed copies to some Protestant friends, and they're having a really hard time disagreeing with it; when any of you read it, you may be surprised when you feel the same!

Also, "How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization" (Dr. Thomas Woods) is a great book that details the incredible advancements in art, architecture, medicine, law, human rights, gender equality, science, and some many other areas that have been made possible by the Catholic Church. It's loaded with excellent information, and remains a fairly easy read!

And "Rediscover Catholicism", by Matthew Kelley. Another easy read, Kelley focuses on the beauty & genius of Catholicism, showing how wonderful all the aspects of Catholicism really are. It discusses the benefits of fasting, honoring the Saints, Confession, and so on. It also provides points to stop & write things down from your own life, to make it very applicable to your life.

And finally, I'd like to provide you all with one of my favorite Catholic resources: EWTN (Eternal Word Television Network). EWTN Global Catholic Television Network: Catholic TV, Catholic Radio, and Catholic News I'm sure you'll be overwhelmed by how much EWTN has to offer, but I assure you, it's easy to see the beauty of Catholicism as you watch the shows, read the articles, and immerse yourself in the beautiful culture of Catholicism. My personal favorite is A Force For Good; it's a TV show that highlights a business that lives Catholic social teaching (Christian morality), and has business & management professors from the Catholic University of America discuss various aspects of the economy, in light of our faith. I have the EWTN app on my tablet & love to watch this show with breakfast; you'll see how it casts such a positive light in the all-too-corrupeted field of business. Amazing things happen when you center your work on Christ!

Here's a link to an episode that discusses what exactly Catholic social teaching is; may God bless your journey, and keep Him in the forefront as you explore what His Church has to offer; have peace & pray!
youtube.com/watch?v=cE8-i_U6-Mk

 

[ralfyman]

You obviously misunderstood. I said this: "…it is wrong to say that when Peter came to the city of Rome from Antioch, his work amounted to the founding of the Roman Catholic Church"

In time--centuries later--the bishopric of Rome did develop into the Roman Catholic Church.

That is quite different from thinking that there was such an entity in Peters time.

And yes, there were always other churches that were independent of it.


Irrelevant. The claim made by Catholics that, because the Bible books were not assembled until the 300s, this means the various churches of the Roman world had nothing to go on previously except for some oral tradition that we cannot identify. That is absolutely incorrect.

Formation of that Church stems from Peter and the apostles.

I did not argue that the Church had nothing to go on before the canon of the Christian Bible was formed. Rather, the claim of sola scriptura is questionable because tradition contributed to the formation of the canon on which that claim is based.

 

[ralfyman]

Where in the world are you getting your information????

The Catholic Church proclaims itself to be the church that Jesus Christ died for, the church that was established and built by the apostles. Is that the true origin of the Catholic Church?

Even a cursory reading of the New Testament will reveal that the Catholic Church does not have its origin in the teachings of Jesus or His apostles. In the New Testament, there is no mention of the papacy, worship/adoration of Mary (or the immaculate conception of Mary, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the assumption of Mary, or Mary as co-redemptrix and mediatrix), petitioning saints in heaven for their prayers, apostolic succession, the ordinances of the church functioning as sacraments, infant baptism, confession of sin to a priest, purgatory, indulgences, or the equal authority of church tradition and Scripture. So, if the origin of the Catholic Church is not in the teachings of Jesus and His apostles, as recorded in the New Testament, what is the true origin of the Catholic Church?
What is the origin of the Roman Catholic Church?

According to The Moody Handbook of Theology, the official beginning of the Roman Catholic church occurred in 590 CE, with Pope Gregory I. This time marked the consolidated of lands controlled by authority of the pope, and thus the church's power, into what would later be known as "the Papal States.".

The canon which constituted the same NT which you mention was formed after 300. The basis of canon formation is early Church tradition which you keep ignoring.

The points which you raise come from the same Church tradition, including veneration of Mary (as seen in frescoes and paintings from the second century onward).

Your final point refers to authority of the Pope and the formation of Papal states, but the Roman Catholic Church stems from the Bishop of Rome. And that came much earlier than 590.

 

[ralfyman]

Thank you for validating the whole debate...…….."Its' not found in the Bible"!!!!!

That is what we all have been saying to you!

What you just said my friend is called...…"False Doctrine"!

False doctrine is that which opposes some fundamental truth that is validated in the Word of God.

Some examples are...………..
The erasing of hell. The Bible describes hell as a real place of eternal torment, the destination for every unregenerate soul.

The idea that there are “many paths to God.

Any teaching that redefines the person of Jesus Christ.

Teaching that adds human religious works to Christ’s finished work on the cross as necessary ingredients for salvation.

Water baptism is necessary for salvation.

Infants must be baptized to be saved.

That's because the same Bible was formed by tradition found outside the Bible. The selection of books for the Christian Bible was formed after 300 by various personalities and councils which are part of that tradition.

 

[Anthony Edgar]

Henry was never a bishop, so that doesn't bear upon the Apostolic Succession in any way. The Apostolic Succession in Britain continued on, unbroken, to the present.

I imagine that the Catholics bishops (who righty had Apostolic Succession) who sided with Henry would have been excommunicated by the Catholic Church. So any bishops they subsequently ordained after that excommunication would not have had Apostolic Succession, and so on to this day.

By the way, you may think that Henry was a heretic, but your church doesn't.

Really?

 

[Anthony Edgar]

The Catholic church us a cult.

Yes, a cult of truth.
Btw, in my gullible and ignorant "anti-Catholic" days, I used to believe all the nonsense taught about the Catholic Church - until the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to the truth. Satan and his demons have devoted a lot of time and effort to producing never-ending lies about the one, true Church. Sadly, a lot of good people having fallen victim to their mendacious propaganda.

And you never answered my questions:
Does your church have bishops and deacons as the Church in Acts did?
Can your church trace it's unbroken history back to the apostles? (If not, your church is not the Church founded by Jesus.)

 

[Lost4words]

Its amazing how many people truly dont know or understand Catholicism. They just dont have a clue about the church, its teachings etc. They blindly throw about unfounded untruths and misinformation about the church.

There are quite a few 'Sola Scripture' people on these forums who have a deep hatred for 'Catholicism'.

 

[Anthony Edgar]

Then just sit on your hands. Or you could read your Bible for yourself.


Hebrews 12:1...…......
" Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us".

According to your approach, a Christian cannot play cards unless it is authorised in the Bible. Which side of his head does the Bible say a Christian man should part his hair on? Where does the Bible says candles cannot be burnt as part of worship? Where does the Bible say no one can drink alcohol?

 

[Anthony Edgar]

Its amazing how many people truly dont know or understand Catholicism. They just dont have a clue about the church, its teachings etc. They blindly throw about unfounded untruths and misinformation about the church.

There are quite a few 'Sola Scripture' people on these forums who have a deep hatred for 'Catholicism'.

Unfortunately a lot of non-Catholic Christians are taught falsehoods about the CC from a very young age. It never occurs to them that the information they've been fed by their parents may be wrong. Plus, to question what their parents taught them usually involves running the risk of falling out with their parents.

 

[Anthony Edgar]

That Scripture has nothing to do with the Pope Adding doctrines to the Bible.

The Pope doesn't add doctrines to the Bible. The Bible was completed about 2000 years ago.

 

[Anthony Edgar]

Nope! Your thinking is very flawed and un-biblical. It may be Catholic thought but it is not Bible speak. You seem to think that majority make correct doctrine.

It has nothing to do with "majority". Jesus said "the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church". That means that once established, the Church will never be destroyed and disappear from history or disappear and resurface at some later date. So the Church that Jesus founded must, at the very least, be able to demonstrate an unbroken history that goes back to the apostles. I know of only one Church that can demonstrate such a history - the Catholic Church.

 

[Anthony Edgar]

The Bible says that a "Bishop MUST BE THE HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE".

Please do not take my word for it. You take the time to read that in your Bible!!!

So Jesus could not even rise to the rank of bishop … in his own Church! Peter and Paul - unmarried men but apostles - could not be bishops? How does that work?

And why is having a wife necessary to be bishop? What is the logic behind that?

 

[Anthony Edgar]

Water baptism is necessary for salvation.

Imagine that … getting sent to hell forever because you didn't get wet enough during baptism!

 

[prodromos]

So the Church that Jesus founded must, at the very least, be able to demonstrate an unbroken history that goes back to the apostles. I know of only one Church that can demonstrate such a history - the Catholic Church.

You didn't look very hard.

 

[Lost4words]

So Jesus could not even rise to the rank of bishop … in his own Church! Peter and Paul - unmarried men but apostles - could not be bishops? How does that work?

And why is having a wife necessary to be bishop? What is the logic behind that?

Thing is, Peter was married anyway. As were early Bishops in the church.

 

[Lost4words]

2 theologians, very well known in Christian circles, both well published, one a Professor, were both 100% against Catholicism from a very early age. They both used to lecture 'against' Catholicism. Many years they did that.

Now, both of them are STAUNCH Catholics. How? After a lot of research, Biblical research etc. Many hours spent delving into scripture.

Scott Hahn Scott Hahn - Wikipedia

Steve Ray Defenders of the Catholic Faith | Hosted by Stephen K. Ray | Author of "St. John's Gospel", "Upon This Rock", & "Crossing the Tiber"

Their stories are inspirational.

 

[Albion]

Formation of that Church stems from Peter and the apostles.[/quote
You could put it that way, yes, but then almost every Christian denomination fits that definition.

[quote I did not argue that the Church had nothing to go on before the canon of the Christian Bible was formed. Rather, the claim of sola scriptura is questionable because tradition contributed to the formation of the canon on which that claim is based.

All right then, we need to keep tradition separate from Sacred Tradition. Most things that have any history in the church can be called tradition, but that doesn't make them the authority for setting doctrine.

If we understand this, saying something like the Bible is not the supreme authority for determining doctrine because the Church didn't have all the books in place on Ascension Thursday is a meaningless statement and absolutely does not depreciate the word of God whenever it was that we received it or recognized it!

 

[Albion]

I imagine that the Catholics bishops (who righty had Apostolic Succession) who sided with Henry would have been excommunicated by the Catholic Church. So any bishops they subsequently ordained after that excommunication would not have had Apostolic Succession, and so on to this day.

Well, that is your hope or guess, but that wasn't what happened, so now we have the issue settled.

 

[Albion]

According to your approach, a Christian cannot play cards unless it is authorised in the Bible.

You've never heard of ex cathedra decrees, then?

 

[Anthony Edgar]

You didn't look very hard.

Sorry, I should have included the Eastern Orthodox Churches, which along with the Catholic Church, can trace an unbroken history back to the apostles.

I respect the Orthodox Churches as authentic Churches, albeit separated from us Catholics.