Catholic views on sex

[JeTmAn]

Originally posted by VOW
To JeTmAn:



When using in-vitro fertilization (which is what you are implying by "minimal manipulation of egg and sperm"), ONE egg is never fertilized. It's always done in a batch. Some may be frozen for future attempts. MORE than one fertilized egg is typically implanted, because the success rate is not optimal. Whether the "extra" embryos are tossed in the trash, or whether the couple chooses "selective reduction" (a polite term for killing one of the implanted embryos) there is always "waste." At ten thousand bucks for each attempt, the clinics will use "overkill" (pun intended) to increase the chances of pregnancy.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

Please don't misinterpret my words. When I say "minimal manipulation", I'm talking about never letting the sperm and egg get together. No fertilization, no conception. If you prevent life from ever being created, life cannot be destroyed, and you haven't sinned.

-JeTmAn

 

[hopeee]

I am Catholic, and I believe in Artificial Birth Control! Personally, I think the Church's reasons for not allowing Catholics to use Birth Control is silly! A lot, of Priests, and Bishops feel the same way.... I asked my Priest, and he said whatever my husband and I think is the right thing for us. I know the Pope does not condone Artificial Birth Control use, but I agree to dissagree. I think most Catholic's that are married use Birth Control.dark blue

 

[Caedmon]

Originally posted by hope
I am Catholic, and I believe in Artificial Birth Control! Personally, I think the Church's reasons for not allowing Catholics to use Birth Control is silly! A lot, of Priests, and Bishops feel the same way.... I asked my Priest, and he said whatever my husband and I think is the right thing for us. I know the Pope does not condone Artificial Birth Control use, but I agree to dissagree. I think most Catholic's that are married use Birth Control.dark blue

Did you know that birth control pills kill embryos? BC pills have three types of agents in them: two contraceptive, one abortifacient. The abortifacient agent causes the lining in the uterus to deteriorate, rendering it impossible for a fertilized, conceived embryo to implant itself.

This third, abortifacient drug is included in the case that the contraceptive agents "fail", and a new human life if conceived in spite of them. That embryo, a newly conceived human life dies, unable to receive nourishment, and is eventually flushed out of the body. It is, in effect, a "silent" abortion.

On top of all this, the contraceptive agents have been decreased in recent years, leaving more of the activity to the domain of the abortifacient. Apparently, the doctors have lost faith in the contraceptive agents and have transferred their trust instead to the destruction of new life.

 

[nyj]

Originally posted by hope
I am Catholic, and I believe in Artificial Birth Control!

I think you should read and take to heart what humblejoe has to say about ABC in his post just below yours. What he says is true, and can be confirmed by reading the package insert that comes with your ABC very carefully. I would suggest that you then pray about this decision and then read up on Natural Family Planning by going to the Couple to Couple League International website.

Personally, I think the Church's reasons for not allowing Catholics to use Birth Control is silly!

As St. Augustine has said: Rome has spoken, the case is closed. What you think and what is truth do not always coincide. We are called to be sheep, not the shepherds. If you wish to stray from the pen and the rest of the flock, you are allowed to do so, but even the loudest braying when you are caught up in the wolves jaws may not be enough to save you.

A lot, of Priests, and Bishops feel the same way.... I asked my Priest, and he said whatever my husband and I think is the right thing for us.

I would say that perhaps some priests are misinformed and misguided, but that they're the exception to the rule. I'd love to see you support your claim about bishops condoning ABC.

I know the Pope does not condone Artificial Birth Control use, but I agree to dissagree.

A Catholic is known by their obedience to those placed in an authoritative role by Jesus Christ Himself. You might want to reconsider your opening statement when you said you were a Catholic.

I think most Catholic's that are married use Birth Control.

If most Catholics got an abortion would you think it acceptable? If most Catholcis thought euthanasia was acceptable would you consider it acceptable too? If most Catholics thought jumping off a bridge to their death was the most acceptable form of death, would you buy a ticket to NY so you could launch yourself off the Brooklyn Bridge? What "most" people do is of little consequence. Remember, narrow is the gate through which we can get to the Father. Think and reflect on that the next time you want to follow the majority.

PS: I'm married, and my wife and I do not use birth control.

 

[Caedmon]

nyj, I may be a Southern Baptist/Reformed thinker, but I can agree with Catholics on this. BC pills destroy newly conceived life; in my opinion, they are almost equivalent with abortion. This is also why doctors tell you NOT to take the pill if you MAY BE pregnant, because of the potential for abortion. The placenta could deteriorate and kill your baby through starvation.

Now some would say that barrier methods are ok because they're not abortifacient, but I tend to disagree. Forgive me if you consider this too frank, but condoms were originally designed and instituted to prevent unwed/teenage pregnancy, the spread of STDs and "overpopulation". I don't want to associate myself with that! When I am married, will I be unwed, teenage, fraught with STDs, or "overpopulating" the Earth? No, because I will abstain from premarital sex. If people didn't have premarital sex, then we wouldn't have to worry about STDs nearly as much, or rampant illegitimate births, and thus "overpopulation".

 

[nyj]

Originally posted by humblejoe
nyj, I may be a Southern Baptist/Reformed thinker, but I can agree with Catholics on this. BC pills destroy newly conceived life; in my opinion, they are almost equivalent with abortion. This is also why doctors tell you NOT to take the pill if you MAY BE pregnant, because of the potential for abortion. The placenta could deteriorate and kill your baby through starvation.

Now some would say that barrier methods are ok because they're not abortifacient, but I tend to disagree. Forgive me if you consider this too frank, but condoms were originally designed and instituted to prevent unwed/teenage pregnancy, the spread of STDs and "overpopulation". I don't want to associate myself with that! When I am married, will I be unwed, teenage, fraught with STDs, or "overpopulating" the Earth? No, because I will abstain from premarital sex. If people didn't have premarital sex, then we wouldn't have to worry about STDs nearly as much, or rampant illegitimate births, and thus "overpopulation".

I agree with everything you said humblejoe, and you gave me additional food for thought on your comments about he barrier methods. Not only should we avoid using ABC because of it's deadly effects, but we should abstain from using barrier methods because it degrades and demeans the value of marriage and the couple in that marriage. Excellent commentary. And as for this "overpopulation" myth... it's just that, a myth, and is something I often bang heads with humanists (ie: atheists mostly) over.

As a graduate student, my thesis is on Neisseria gonorrhoeae, a sexually transmitted pathogen, which has a high frequency of occurance in teenagers, and can cause severe disease in girls (leading to sterility). When I give seminars I always tell people that even though there is no vaccine, there is a 100% sure-fire way to prevent transmission and acquisition of this pathogen. When it comes time for questions, people always ask me how and I reply "abstinence". I seem to get a lot of glares from people when I say this (you know, sort of mixing religion and science is a no-no) but you just can't argue with the results... 100% of the people who refrain from having sex do not acquire this disease.

Some actually raise the question "But, is that reasonable?" and I reply to the effect that, well... is it reasonable to not want to have an ectopic pregnancy, or go sterile, or potentially die? Last time I checked, I had an intellect and I wasn't a stupid animal that relied purely on instinct on when to mate and when not to. If I can apply some common sense to everyday life, I can surely curb my "sexual appetite" until it is the proper time (ie: the marriage environment).

At any rate, I've rambled long enough, just wanted to say that I agree with you 100%.

 

[Caedmon]

Originally posted by nyj
Not only should we avoid using ABC because of it's deadly effects, but we should abstain from using barrier methods because it degrades and demeans the value of marriage and the couple in that marriage.

I compare contracepted sex to bulimia. The sensations are exploited, but they are fruitless, and the loss of the life-giving element destroys the heart.

Excellent commentary.

Thanks!

I seem to get a lot of glares from people when I say this (you know, sort of mixing religion and science is a no-no) but you just can't argue with the results... 100% of the people who refrain from having sex do not acquire this disease.

Who says abstinence is exclusively a religious decision? Logically, if you do not have sex, you will not acquire a disease transmitted by sexual activity. You can't get any more logical than that.

Some actually raise the question "But, is that reasonable?"

""Come now, and let us reason together," says the LORD, "Though your sins are as scarlet, they will be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they will be like wool."" - Isaiah 1:18, NASB

I rest my case.

 

[patriarch]

Haven't read the whole thread. Are you kidding? But my two cents.

My understanding is that 3/4 of all divorces are initiated by women, probably because of the pill. The pill works by keeping their bodies in a state of simulated pregnancy *all the time.* Perhaps they get the idea that their husbands don't care what they go through, just so long as they continue to be a willing sexual sump.

Natural Family Planning, which my wife and I practiced in our child-bearing years, changes all that. A certain amount of discipline and abstinence is required every month, but it has the advantage of keeping the sexual relationship fresh. Certainly it is not routine. The wife feels that she has her husband's respect. The husband has to grow in the virtue of chastity. From a marital/spiritual, sociological point of view, it is a win/win/win situation.

 

[dnich163]

For me there are a small couple of issues here.

The first post spoke about sex...I prefer to call it love, and a man and woman should give themslevs to each other in love.

The deeper issue is about " potential "

Aquinas commented on human beings achieving their full potential in order to come to know God.
This is what we are designed for.

The other issues which are creeping up on us in our society are about the after effects of the pill and abortive drugs.
There are a growing number of cases where women who have been taking the pill, and come of it to have a baby, find that they can't maintain a pregnancy.
This research is in it's infancy, but there is enough to suggest that the walls of the womb become to rigid for the baby apparently.

Who is it that gives life anyway ?
Is it truly a gift ?

Regards
David

 

[panterapat]

You are not alone. The vast majority of American Catholics are either ignorant of, or choose to disregard the Church's teaching on birth control.

The congegal love of a married couple contains two essential aspects. There is the UNITIVE aspect which comes about through mutual enjoyment, a life lived together, respect and love for each other etc. The PROCREATIVE aspect of the mariage act is coupled to the unitive. It is the unitive that attracts us to the act. The two aspects of a holy union must never be uncoupled. Remaining open to the possibility of life is allowing God to determine your future.

Sex is sacred. Through our power to procreate, we share in God's gift of life. This gift of life is a blessed thing. We cooperate with God in order to create a soul for all eternity. At conception, a unique child of God is created for an eternal destiny.

Through the uncoupling of the two essential aspects, we frustrate God's plan. Thus the act of sex has become distorted. This has led to all sort of sexual sins. The great expansion of contraception has led directly to the great increase in abortions.

There are ways to NATURALLY help control family size (cmbbt is about 90 some % effective). The difference is that the POSSIBILITY of God's intervention in there. The couple is OPEN to God's determination of their family size.

It is a wonderful feeling to turn away from the contraception mentality and allow God to have the final say. It takes an act of courage and an act of faith.

Remember the Words of God the Father, "Go and multiply." May our Lord bless you and guide your every step.

In Christ, Patrick