Catholic Teachings.... Backed by Scripture??

[SwordoftheLord]

Your comments made it clear that you didn't even know what the teaching regarding purgatory is.

You are like many lapsed Catholics who never learned the faith. It is a shame because it is probably not your fault.

It is your fault, however, when you misrepresent Church teaching today.

I do really wish you would stay out of here, since you dont have a clue, and post quick posts that prove you didnt read the whole reply, and dont understand what you are speaking about.

 

[SwordoftheLord]

I was expecting better.

Good grief!

Expecting better from me or the person I quoted?

 

[WisdomTree]

Yes, why would you think different?

What did Jesus say the Holy Ghost would do? Lead us into all truth, convicting the world of sin, leading us to Christ. Do you get the picture?

If your hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ and the convictions by the Spirit, who are you rejecting? If you reject it.

Reason I say so is because Christ said rejecting the Father was forgiveable, since rejecting either the Father or the Holy Ghost is akin to rejecting Christ (since they're the same yet not) we have a contradiction.

How I interpret that part of scripture is this: denying absolute truth which you cannot deny. We can profess to reject God, yet we will be forgiven because we know nothing. However, if the Holy Ghost visited you one day and enlightened you with the Truth which goes beyond human comprehension and any forms of logic, yet you choose to reject it, you are committing an unforgivable since. From this I hypothesise that Angels who rebelled from God will suffer the same treatment from this verse.

 

[Foghorn]

I would think anyone who desires truth would pay attention to Paul's warning in Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

So far I have mainly looked at Purgatory, basically where it started and by whom. It's history, an early church fact.

The RCC will claim it believed in Purgatory in the first churches because it prayed for the dead, therefore this practice was becoming common by the beginning of the 3ed century. However, it does not prove at all that the early church believed in or practiced the doctrine of Purgatory.

In fact records show from early writings from the catacombs viewed that believers who have died resided in peace and happiness (not a Purgatory) and these prayers were for them to have a greater experience of this.

So we believers should take heed to Paul's words to the Colossian church. Quite simply, Purgatory is a man made doctrine. Scripture teaches that a believer is complete in Christ and Christ's work on the cross is sufficient to deal with the entire penalty for sin.

 

[Foghorn]

Expecting better from me or the person I quoted?

No, not from you bro. I think your doing fine!

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Well I learned something. I have always assumed priestly celibacy in the catholic church was not an option.

I guess this throws out the idea that RCC doctrine is making priestly pedophiles,[no marriage to "release sexual urges"], but nope, those fellas just had problems to begin with.

Also I see the weekly catholic bashing thread begins. I expect 1 more before the week ends.

Also, I am a divided on monastic orders. While I applaud the individual's personal dedication to Christ by voluntarily choosing a life of poverty, I am not a fan of their reclusive communities.[ie they sort of wall themselves off from the world] Then again, they aren't reclusive as they are merely living in a community to support themselves because of their poverty. hmm

 

[Foghorn]

Your comments made it clear that you didn't even know what the teaching regarding purgatory is.

I guess that's a fair reply since you don't know me. But as time goes by I believe you will feel different.

You are like many lapsed Catholics who never learned the faith. It is a shame because it is probably not your fault.

You shouldn't be judging me, again, you don't know me. I on the other hand understand you, I realize why you believe as you do. And you know what? that's ok.

It is your fault, however, when you misrepresent Church teaching today.

Please, show me where I have misrepresented the RCC, I am willing to listen and hear your side of it.

 

[Foghorn]

Good Day,

That is a very novel way of interpreting John 16:12, is that yours or your denominations??

If it is the later, would you have the source?

If it not the later (but your own private interpretation) you would have to agree you could be in error as you infallible interpreter of scripture has yet to weigh in on the passage.

In Him,
Bill

I assume their talking about Sacred Tradition?

I wonder if they are aware of this?

We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith............Irenaeus.

 

[Foghorn]

There is nothing novel about it.

Jesus promised that the Church would be led into ALL truth and that the gates of Hell would not prevail against it.

Clear enough?

Through the truth in the word. Not by fables and old wives tales.

 

[Foghorn]

Reason I say so is because Christ said rejecting the Father was forgiveable, since rejecting either the Father or the Holy Ghost is akin to rejecting Christ (since they're the same yet not) we have a contradiction.

How I interpret that part of scripture is this: denying absolute truth which you cannot deny. We can profess to reject God, yet we will be forgiven because we know nothing. However, if the Holy Ghost visited you one day and enlightened you with the Truth which goes beyond human comprehension and any forms of logic, yet you choose to reject it, you are committing an unforgivable since. From this I hypothesise that Angels who rebelled from God will suffer the same treatment from this verse.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[Foghorn]

Well I learned something. I have always assumed priestly celibacy in the catholic church was not an option.

Well during certain times it was not an option.

Also I see the weekly catholic bashing thread begins. I expect 1 more before the week ends.

Your mistaken here, I do hope it does not turn into one. Go back and read through, you should notice there are some who do want a good discussion. One problem is, some RC's don't want to discuss things, just make claims and cast judgements. But not all.

 

[topcare]

Scripture doesn't instruct us to observe the Feast of the Nativity (Christmas). We, that is Christians, do that because we love our Lord Jesus Christ. And the liturgical date is December 25th, following the ancient practice of the Church.

I certainly don't see any biblical teaching that forbids us from honoring the Lord's birth.

But since we're talking things not expressly commanded in Scripture as though they are in and of themselves a problem, perhaps we could start with the Bible itself. I've yet to actually see anywhere in Scripture that teaches

A) A definitive biblical canon and where that canon is itself defined

B) That we are restricted only to the use of Scripture as defined by such a canon.

Now here's the thing. I'm a Lutheran, we're the Sola Scriptura folks. And yet we've never had a problem with the traditions of the ancient Christian Church save for when they conflict with Scripture--that's actually what Sola Scriptura refers to. You see Sola Scriptura does not refer to some sort of "Bible Onlyism", instead it refers to Scripture alone being the infallible Regula Fidei and Norma Normans; that is, the infailing rule of faith and norming norm of Christianity. It means Scripture is the final court of appeal, and we say that in order to regulate doctrine and practice in order that we do not deviate from "the faith once and for all delivered to the saints" in order that we remain faithful and true to the Church's historic and ancient confession, its orthodoxy, and its catholicity.

It isn't a sledgehammer to go ahead smashing at the pillars and foundations of the household of faith and rebuild it from the ground up with the opinions and traditions of men--as has been the practice of most of Protestantism.

-CryptoLutheran

I would like to see A and B answered from those who asume that everything must be from Scripture

 

[yogosans14]

I would think anyone who desires truth would pay attention to Paul's warning in Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

So far I have mainly looked at Purgatory, basically where it started and by whom. It's history, an early church fact.

The RCC will claim it believed in Purgatory in the first churches because it prayed for the dead, therefore this practice was becoming common by the beginning of the 3ed century. However, it does not prove at all that the early church believed in or practiced the doctrine of Purgatory.

In fact records show from early writings from the catacombs viewed that believers who have died resided in peace and happiness (not a Purgatory) and these prayers were for them to have a greater experience of this.

So we believers should take heed to Paul's words to the Colossian church. Quite simply, Purgatory is a man made doctrine. Scripture teaches that a believer is complete in Christ and Christ's work on the cross is sufficient to deal with the entire penalty for sin.

Christ hath purged us from all sin.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Catholic Teachings.... Backed by Scripture??

Just checking in.

Me too.
Sounds like a spin off of this other thread:

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870602-88/
Roman church errors and inventions

......List errors and inventions/traditions invented by the Papacy aka Roman catholicism.

This is a list I comprised from the first 40 posts on this thread. I will work on another 40 posts when time allows...........

I put up the "post link" for each one mentioned here. The duplicates that I could see I put in "RED"......Thanks

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43628489

Scholasticism
Filioque
Papal Supremacy
Immaculate Conception

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43630346

Inventions:
-Infallability of the Pope
-Papal supremacy
-Immaculate coneption
-purgatory
Errors:
-Vatican I and II(not the councells but their decisions....although II was worse than I)
-indulgencies
-crusades
-Vatican City.... (never should have been a "seperate state"but goes hand in hand with the Papal supreority)

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43629206

Hmmmmm, let me think on that one..................................................................................................

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43630926
um, I got one, well kind of, not an error by the Pope but some errors made by a Catholic King and Catholic Monk.
Luthernism and Anglicanism

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43632320
None

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43636094

I'm going to have to go with Mr. O'Briens answer.

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43636190
Change in Paschalion.

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43636780
Lack of fasting. [of which post # 36 clarifies what is meant]

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43636255

*snip*

Crusades.

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43646993

*snip*
......so you see LLoJ...the RCC or any "business" that is involved in day to day ops certainly can't allow ALL MEN to believe in Him...the only ones who are allowed to believe are those who ADHERE to their particular organizations DOCTRINE...because THAT is the FORCE they use to keep their CUSTOMERS...and if you don't buy into ANY "churches" system...they will DAMN YOU TO BURN ALIVE...

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43652400

assumption of mary

submission to the pope of Rome being absolutely neccessary for salvation

penance to atone for sins committed after baptism

auricular confession

sacerdotal sacramentalism

meritorious works for the attainment of salvation

the whole Roman system of justification

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43668261
Lateran IV

Unam Sanctum

Trent

Vatican I

Vatican II

the papacy

the Marian dogmas

the dogma of papal infallibility

auricular confession and penance

sacerdotal sacramentalism

purgatory

indugences

transubstantiation

and admit that the Roman religion was built upon the deceptions and frauds of forgeries invented during the dark ages

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Your mistaken here, I do hope it does not turn into one. Go back and read through, you should notice there are some who do want a good discussion. One problem is, some RC's don't want to discuss things, just make claims and cast judgements. But not all.

Oh it will, but it will not be no fault of your own. I am sure you will try to keep it civil. People are religious fascists when it comes to their traditions, whether it is thousands of years old or 10 minutes old. People cling to their religion more than their faith and will abandon the latter to defend the former. A most confusing conundrum as a christian.

 

[Albion]

Well I learned something. I have always assumed priestly celibacy in the catholic church was not an option.

Yes, it's always an option. For the first thousand or so years of Christian history, married clergy were the norm. Even after the celibacy rule was adopted for the Latin rites--but not the others--no one was forced to be celibate. If you didn't, or don't, want celibacy, you don't have to enroll in seminary and seek ordination.

Also, I am a divided on monastic orders. While I applaud the individual's personal dedication to Christ by voluntarily choosing a life of poverty, I am not a fan of their reclusive communities.[ie they sort of wall themselves off from the world] Then again, they aren't reclusive as they are merely living in a community to support themselves because of their poverty. hmm

I don't feel that it's a big issue, but some people do...and for them, the idea of retreating from the world in order to work on one's own spiritual life amounts to turning your back on the great commission to evangelize the world and/or to be in the world while not being of the world.
s

 

[Foghorn]

Oh it will, but it will not be no fault of your own. I am sure you will try to keep it civil. People are religious fascists when it comes to their traditions, whether it is thousands of years old or 10 minutes old. People cling to their religion more than their faith and will abandon the latter to defend the former. A most confusing conundrum as a christian.

Sadly, I believe you are correct.

 

[Erose]

I would think anyone who desires truth would pay attention to Paul's warning in Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

So why did you follow the vain philosophy and empty deceptions of Calvin?

So far I have mainly looked at Purgatory, basically where it started and by whom. It's history, an early church fact.

The RCC will claim it believed in Purgatory in the first churches because it prayed for the dead, therefore this practice was becoming common by the beginning of the 3ed century. However, it does not prove at all that the early church believed in or practiced the doctrine of Purgatory.

No. Did you know that the practice of praying for the dead came from our Jewish heritage? Do you know that even today Jews pray for the dead using prayers that are older than the New Testament?

In fact records show from early writings from the catacombs viewed that believers who have died resided in peace and happiness (not a Purgatory) and these prayers were for them to have a greater experience of this.

They do? Then if you know this then you could provide evidence of this assertion.

So we believers should take heed to Paul's words to the Colossian church. Quite simply, Purgatory is a man made doctrine. Scripture teaches that a believer is complete in Christ and Christ's work on the cross is sufficient to deal with the entire penalty for sin.

No purgatory is a doctrine that comes from Divine Revelation, Sola Fide on the other hand is an example of a man-made doctrine, if you want to know what one looks like.

 

[yogosans14]

Using the Jews as a example of praying for the dead is not a good idea. The Jews do not have the fullness of truth in Christ.

 

[Erose]

Well I learned something. I have always assumed priestly celibacy in the catholic church was not an option.

Well it really is not doctrine, but discipline. Kind of like if you are member of the military for example, you have to wear a certain uniform, and carry yourself in a certain way.

As people have wrote previously there are priests who are married; but the norm is celibacy, which is what St. Paul recommends.

I guess this throws out the idea that RCC doctrine is making priestly pedophiles,[no marriage to "release sexual urges"], but nope, those fellas just had problems to begin with.

Well pedophilia isn't only a single person problem. If only it was that simple. No it is a sickness that crosses many walks of life.

Also I see the weekly catholic bashing thread begins. I expect 1 more before the week ends.

Didn't do that no body would have nothing to talk about.

Also, I am a divided on monastic orders. While I applaud the individual's personal dedication to Christ by voluntarily choosing a life of poverty, I am not a fan of their reclusive communities.[ie they sort of wall themselves off from the world] Then again, they aren't reclusive as they are merely living in a community to support themselves because of their poverty. hmm

One of the things you also have to realize it really depends upon the order. There are some order that do separate themselves from society as much as they can, such as Benedictian orders; but many orders are orders of service, i.e. they manage schools and hospitals and other service related activities; others are missionary in practice; others require the members to work outside the order, etc.