Catholic House Democrats prepare to send bishops 'statement of principles' on Communion vote

[iarwain]

But for Catholics, we believe in the real presence of Christ in the bread and wine, the Eucharist.

Catholics believe the Eucharist is the literal body of Christ. I know some Protestants (not all) believe it is instead symbolic.
Jesus said "This is my body", I'm not going to disagree with Him.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Not being able to answer what the penalty would be for a woman who obtains an abortion is critical in the discussion. No one would advocate throwing a woman in jail or the death penalty for her for having an abortion, especially before viability.

As it is, we do have regulations on late term abortions and even after viability.

For many states, unless it's to save the life of the mother, it's not allowed.

I might be able to buy into this idea, if I believed that these Catholic politicians cared about limiting abortion, but they clearly don't. The goal of the democratic party which these Catholic public officials have signed on to is to expand abortion rights, access and even directly fund it via the government.

Nancy Pelosi will never say a negative thing publicly about abortion and will always say it's a private matter. This makes many of us deny the seriousness of her professed faith or that she is in anyway an orthodox Catholic.

You would have to acknowledge though, if the Bishops do nothing, if things continue as they are then to be a Catholic democrat means nothing. Why should Christians be for this? Why should Catholics sacrifice their morality at the altar of progressive thinking in order to engage in the common good of society?

I understand why secularists prefer it this way. They want religion out of the public space and to have little to no influence, but why should Catholics desire this outcome when in the end it will only serve to weaken the Catholic Church?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Catholics believe the Eucharist is the literal body of Christ. I know some Protestants (not all) believe it is instead symbolic.
Jesus said "This is my body", I'm not going to disagree with Him.

How could it be his body if he had not yet been crucified?

 

[tulc]

(snip) This makes many of us deny the seriousness of her professed faith or that she is in anyway an orthodox Catholic.
(snip)

...I'm curious: does she actually need the permission of those "us" you refer to for her to be orthodox?
tulc(is just wondering)

 

[iarwain]

How could it be his body if he had not yet been crucified?

How could it be if He had?

 

[civilwarbuff]

...I'm curious: does she actually need the permission of those "us" you refer to for her to be orthodox?
tulc(is just wondering)

Is that really 'permission' or maybe a profession of faith against the overwhelmingly pro-abortion stance of the democratic party so they, the Catholic Church as well as the party, knows where she stands? Instead, she remains silent in her support of the unborn.

 

[civilwarbuff]

How could it be if He had?

That's not answering the question......please try again.....

 

[iarwain]

That's not answering the question......please try again.....

I'm saying I don't see how one state makes it more impossible than the other. You either accept it as a miracle or you don't.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I'm saying I don't see how one state makes it more impossible than the other. You either accept it as a miracle or you don't.

One state makes it more probable than the other IMO........

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

...I'm curious: does she actually need the permission of those "us" you refer to for her to be orthodox?
tulc(is just wondering)

Is tulc willing to ask directly? Because I don't really want to talk to someone talking for zhe/zher/they/them.

 

[hedrick]

The Catholic Church in the US is in an odd state. Most members disagree with most bishops on issues involving gender and sex. This hasn't caused a crisis because no one has been willing to push it. This will do so. Conservative Catholics will no doubt be happy to stick it to their liberal co-religionists. Certainly plenty of Protestant denominations have done things like that. But it's not my idea of how to run a church. Of course that's a liberal viewpoint.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

The Catholic Church in the US is in an odd state. Most members disagree with most bishops on issues involving gender and sex. This hasn't caused a crisis because no one has been willing to push it. This will do so. Conservative Catholics will no doubt be happy to stick it to their liberal co-religionists. Certainly plenty of Protestant denominations have done things like that. But it's not my idea of how to run a church. Of course that's a liberal viewpoint.

If you wanted to liberalize the Catholic Church, you would recommend they do nothing to these Catholic politicians and make the matter entirely private right?

 

[hedrick]

If you wanted to liberalize the Catholic Church, you would recommend they do nothing to these Catholic politicians and make the matter entirely private right?

I think when churches have serious divisions, it's best not to turn it into a power struggle, but try to act like brothers and sisters. But this is based on a liberal reading of what it means to be a Christian.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I think when churches have serious divisions, it's best not to turn it into a power struggle, but try to act like brothers and sisters.

But in acting like a brother and sister to someone who advocates against your Church's position, you open yourself up to change. The inevitable result of not settling on a line that cannot be crossed, is that it all blurs together. The Catholic Church, in seeking to be inclusive would cease to be Catholic.

Same as any other Church mind you.

 

[hedrick]

But in acting like a brother and sister to someone who advocates against your Church's position, you open yourself up to change. The inevitable result of not settling on a line that cannot be crossed, is that it all blurs together. The Catholic Church, in seeking to be inclusive would cease to be Catholic..

As I said, different views of what it means to be a Christian. I'm glad I'm not a Catholic. Or at least a conservative Catholic.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

As I said, different views of what it means to be a Christian. I'm glad I'm not a Catholic. Or at least a conservative Catholic.

So why should the Catholic Church open itself up to potential dissidents from the inside?

Conservatives in general don't want to join liberal Churches but if they did, you don't think liberal Churches would take measures to ensure that what they teach is crystal clear? To prevent conservatives from changing the Church, if they ever became an influential part of it? I have no doubt about it that they would and they would be more ruthless to dissidents than the CC is towards it's own.

My point is simple. If the Bishops do nothing the liberals will win eventually and the pressure from the laity will be almost irresistible.

 

[tulc]

Is tulc willing to ask directly? Because I don't really want to talk to someone talking for zhe/zher/they/them.

uhmmm...I was quoting you, in your post you said:

This makes many of us deny the seriousness of her professed faith or that she is in anyway an orthodox Catholic.

so I was just curious if she needed to have the "us" you were talking about's permission/belief for her to have faith?
tulc(is still curious)

 

[civilwarbuff]

I think when churches have serious divisions, it's best not to turn it into a power struggle, but try to act like brothers and sisters.

Even if that divisiion is contrary to the word of God?

 

[tulc]

Is that really 'permission' or maybe a profession of faith against the overwhelmingly pro-abortion stance of the democratic party so they, the Catholic Church as well as the party, knows where she stands? Instead, she remains silent in her support of the unborn.

So that would be a "yes, she needs to have "us's" permission/belief before she can be considered to have faith."?
tulc(is still trying to understand)

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

uhmmm...I was quoting you, in your post you said:

so I was just curious if she needed to have the "us" you were talking about's permission/belief for her to have faith?
tulc(is still curious)

That's a shame. Well, hopefully tulc decides to appear on these forums one day.