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Catholic Faith
- Thread starter Blazen
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Blazen said:
Blaze, if we start with SS, it's a long road. Try this:
http://www.nccbuscc.com/catechism/text/pt2sect2.htm#art1
This is the site for the Catechism in general:
http://www.nccbuscc.com/catechism/text/index.htm
The first site explains the teaching of the Church on Baptism, including its basis in Revelation (Scripture and Tradition).
THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH (the second site)explains our Faith in a cohesive, coherent, logical and integrated way.
This is scriptural: Jesus told the Apostles to baptise. So they did. We continue to do as they taught us. "Salvation does begin when one believes and when one accepts Jesus as Lord and continues through obedience in all things. Salvation is a gift from God (Grace) just as Faith is. The most important thing on our side of the ledger is Obedience. "If you love me, keep my commandments."
Do you agree with this, brother Blazen?
If not, why not?
We don't debate 'baptism', we do it because that's what Jesus said we should do. Period.
And, Blazen, our Faith is not based on verses of SS nor even on all of them combined. We believe in all of the Revelation God has given us thru the Church, including SS and Sacred Tradition.
Keep the questions coming. We are here to answer them.
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Blazen, you appear to have a fundamentalist/evangelical/Protestant viewpoint. Your questions show that you share the assumptions that they have, especially the role of scripture.
The Bible is nothing but a tradition (a Sacred Tradition) of the Catholic Church. It was created by the Catholic Church, which decided through councils which books are scripture and which books are not scripture. If you threw out the Gospels that the Church has endorsed, and instead accepted the Gospel of Thomas and others, you would have a very different theology.
Some books barely got into the Bible, or were rejected from the Bible, because they did not perfectly reflect the truth of the Catholic Church.The reason the books in your Bible were chosen is because they were in accord with Catholic beliefs and teachings. So, to ask where are the Catholic traditions in the Bible puts the cart before the horse.
Not every Catholic belief can be found in scripture. We also believe in the creeds, such as the Apostles Creed and the Nicene Creed. Asking "Where in the Nicene Creed does it mention Confession," for example, is a strange question. Of course it's not in the Nicene Creed -- and it doesn't need to be. The same goes for scripture.
The Bible is nothing but a tradition (a Sacred Tradition) of the Catholic Church. It was created by the Catholic Church, which decided through councils which books are scripture and which books are not scripture. If you threw out the Gospels that the Church has endorsed, and instead accepted the Gospel of Thomas and others, you would have a very different theology.
Some books barely got into the Bible, or were rejected from the Bible, because they did not perfectly reflect the truth of the Catholic Church.The reason the books in your Bible were chosen is because they were in accord with Catholic beliefs and teachings. So, to ask where are the Catholic traditions in the Bible puts the cart before the horse.
Not every Catholic belief can be found in scripture. We also believe in the creeds, such as the Apostles Creed and the Nicene Creed. Asking "Where in the Nicene Creed does it mention Confession," for example, is a strange question. Of course it's not in the Nicene Creed -- and it doesn't need to be. The same goes for scripture.
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Michelina said:
I do not understand why study the Catechism when the scriptures is all you need?
I agree that obedience is the right thing, but it sounds as though it is a "chore" rather than what it really is, a privelage. I thought if you truely love God and accept Jesus Christ then obedience would come through your faith. Not because we have to obey Gods rules or just want to, but because we have accepted God and Jesus Christ into our lives, allowing the Holy Spirit to lead us in the right direction.
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PeterPaul
Well-Known Member
So you think everything in the Bible are the words of God. At no time is the author offering his input?
The point is, the Bible was not around during the first hundreds of years after Christ's resurrection. It was Church tradition that compiled the Bible and before that it was Tradition that taught the masses. To say something that is not scriptural is not valid is to say that before they had the Bible everyone was heretical.
In addition, your "it isn't in the Bible" as if that means its wrong "isn't in the Bible".
The point is, the Bible was not around during the first hundreds of years after Christ's resurrection. It was Church tradition that compiled the Bible and before that it was Tradition that taught the masses. To say something that is not scriptural is not valid is to say that before they had the Bible everyone was heretical.
In addition, your "it isn't in the Bible" as if that means its wrong "isn't in the Bible".
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Blazen,
Please tell me on whose authority you believe that what you call "scripture" is Christian scripture, as opposed to false writings like the Gospel of Thomas. Did you decide it on your own? Did a spirit tell you what is scripture? Did your church decide which books are scripture and not scripture? Did your parents decide it for you?
Thanks.
Please tell me on whose authority you believe that what you call "scripture" is Christian scripture, as opposed to false writings like the Gospel of Thomas. Did you decide it on your own? Did a spirit tell you what is scripture? Did your church decide which books are scripture and not scripture? Did your parents decide it for you?
Thanks.
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(Bolding mine)Blazen said:
Where in the Scripture does it say that?
Actually I'm sure you've probably read the verses in the Bible talking about how we should hold fast to traditions and how not everything is in the Bible. The most common arguement I hear about those is that the Bible is enough, but I always wonder what about all that stuff that wasn't written, should it be ignored? Why do only some people get to hear that Word, or would the Apostles take care to hand that down to us so that the Church would hold that in Tradition so that we never forget. Sort of like the Bible, the Church didn't just put together one canon and leave it at that, they took care to copy it and copy it over and over again so that the Church would have it for us now so that we never forget.
If obediance is a "chore" than that would be from your viewpoint. I'm sure many people on this forum that Obediance to God is the most freeing thing that they've ever experianced. Sure it is not always easy, but that is because we are human and Faith is believing so much that you will obey even if you don't feel like it. And we obey because God wants us to and we LOVE God.Blazen said:
I hope I explained well enough. I'm glad that you are coming to this board and asking these questions about Catholicism from actual Catholics. And I would like to help with some advice if I may. Pray about it. Pray that God helps you be open to what is the truth and not what you want the truth to be.
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I have to go out for dinner so i'll be back in an hour or so. Thank you all for your knowledge, patience, and help. I know it seems as though I am trying to accuse the Catholic teachings as false, well thats because I am. I am trying to make sure I know anything and everything before I join any Church of any belief. Thank you again.
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The Bible (the collected books of the Old Testament and the collected books of the New Testament) came FROM the Church.
The Church does not come from the Bible.
*****
Did you see the movie "A Few Good Men"?
In the trial, the prosecuting attorney [Kevin Bacon] says there is no such thing as a "code red" because it is not written in the "Army Manual", and everything army is IN the 'Army Manual".
So, the defense attorney [Tom Cruise], hands the 'Army Manual' to the soldier on the stand [Noah Wyle], and asks him to open the Manual to show the mealtimes of the camp.
And the mealtimes are not IN the Manual.
So, there are no meals at the camp?
The Church does not come from the Bible.
*****
Did you see the movie "A Few Good Men"?
In the trial, the prosecuting attorney [Kevin Bacon] says there is no such thing as a "code red" because it is not written in the "Army Manual", and everything army is IN the 'Army Manual".
So, the defense attorney [Tom Cruise], hands the 'Army Manual' to the soldier on the stand [Noah Wyle], and asks him to open the Manual to show the mealtimes of the camp.
And the mealtimes are not IN the Manual.
So, there are no meals at the camp?
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Blazen said:
Yes they are, that is why the Church has put the canon of the Bible together to pass down to us, and why the Word of God that was not written is perserved and passed down to us in Sacred Tradition.
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