Catholic Faith

[geocajun]

But why study the Catechism if it does not include everything, why not just study the scriptures?

the scriptures do not contain all that has been revealed to us.
We must also hold fast to the Traditions.

Is Gods words not enough?

yes, Gods revelation to us is not limited to just the bible. This entire word bears the imprint of His being and we can learn from it.
Scripture and Tradition give us direct revelation by which we can learn about God.

 

[geocajun]

Did you see the movie "A Few Good Men"?

In the trial, the prosecuting attorney [Kevin Bacon] says there is no such thing as a "code red" because it is not written in the "Army Manual", and everything army is IN the 'Army Manual".

So, the defense attorney [Tom Cruise], hands the 'Army Manual' to the soldier on the stand [Noah Wyle], and asks him to open the Manual to show the mealtimes of the camp.

And the mealtimes are not IN the Manual.

So, there are no meals at the camp?

I love that scene, great use of the example too!

 

[KC Catholic]

But why study the Catechism if it does not include everything, why not just study the scriptures?

We have to remember a couple of things:

1. Christ started and ran his ministry without the bible. He taught verbally.
2. The Apostles continued Christ's ministry and teachings without a bible.
3. Everything the early Christians practiced and believed was handed down by word of mouth and letters between the Apostles and the Churches.
4. People began collecting those writings, some were valid some were not and thus several councils had to be called to decide which letters and accounts of Jesus' life and ministry were correct and which were flawed.

5. Those books combined with the Jewish Cannon of the Old Testament became our bible.

6. During this period until our present time the Church continues to teach verbally and from the collection of letters and accounts of Jesus life and minstry.

7. The verbal teachings, which are God-Inspired, led and protected by the Holy Spirit is called Sacred Tradition and the which are God-Inspired, God Breathed letters are Sacred Scripture.

8. Sacred Scripture was never designed to be a complete "How to Be a Christian" maunal OR all the teachings handed down over 2000 years would be detailed in the bible.

9. No where in the bible does it claim that Scripture is all we need. In fact there are several passages that remind the listeners that they need to hold fast to the teachings given to them by the Apostles - either spoken to them or in writing.

10. Catholics hold Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture on equal planes.

This is a high-level overview but its enough to dispell some of the misconceptions about the Catholic Churchs teachings.

The Catechism.....it gives us an exaplaination of why we are Catholic and how we function as Christian Community.

 

[Michelina]

Blazen, do you think God is a sadist? Only a sadistic God would give us the Scriptures and say "You're on your own. See ya Later". (Those who think He did this belong to one of the thousands of Protestant churches that have multiplied like rabbits since the Protestant Deformation.)

Our God is a God of Love Who cares for us. So He established a Church and gave the Church the Scriptures and other Revelation which is not in written form. He Gave us a Magisterium (Teaching Authority) to guide us into all Truth thru the Holy Spirit. Just as God guided the human authors to write what He wanted them to write and only what He wanted them to write, so too He has guided the Magisterium of the Church to guard what the Apostles taught us. In the course of time, Christians matured and reflected on His Revelation. When we were newbies, we were given milk. But gradually we were given meat.

We Catholics hate Bibliolatry (worship of the Bible) because it puts the SScriptures in the place of Jesus, the Eternal Word. He dwells in His Church - the Mystical Body of Christ. If you know the SS, you know that, brother Blazen.

PLEASE RESPOND TO THE SUBSTANCE OF WHAT WE'RE SAYING. ​

IT WOULD REALLY HELP.​

 

[PeterPaul]

Michelina, I love it when hit the nail on the head...

 

[Bastoune]

The Catechism is an explanation of the faith... let's call it a love song of the Church (the Bride of Christ) to her Spouse... truly beautiful, read it cover to cover for it is "saturated with the word of God" to quote Jack Van Impe, a popular fundamentalist Christian. Everyone reads the Bible and comes to a different conclusion. Following the so-called "Reformation" there were so many splits among the Protestants that in the late 16th Century a book was published called, 500 Interpretations of "This Is My Body".

Is that what God meant when He said He'd lead the Church into "all truth" and those who speak, would hear Him? (Lk 10:16)

 

[Michelina]

Dear Blazen,
If you read the 17th chap. of the Gospel of John, you see that the unity of His disciples is extremely important to Jesus. He desires it with all His Heart. Do you think that He would leave us orphans? Do you think He would NOT provide us with a mechanism of Unity, thru which the Holy Spirit could work? That mechanism is the Church and her Spirit-led Magisterium.

 

[Blazen]

Thank you for all of your insite so far. I am beginning to understand more and more. I have a couple of questions. What does "Church" mean to you? What are these sacred traditions and why are they needed?

 

[Blazen]

Also from what I understand, throughout the scriptures I can plainly see that salvation is through Jesus Christ by faith and not by sacrements or works, so where dies baptism come into play?

 

[PeterPaul]

Where does it say not by works? If you reread what we posted you will see what our answer to that is.

 

[Christy4Christ]

Church= body of Christ

Sacred Traditions are passed down to us from the apostles

I guess they are needed because the apostles said so? I dunno, seems good enough for me...

I will let one of the smarter people answer you though

 

[Skripper]

Also from what I understand, throughout the scriptures I can plainly see that salvation is through Jesus Christ by faith and not by sacrements or works, so where dies baptism come into play?

Jesus says baptism is required for salvation. (John 3:5; Mark 16:16)

One is born again in Christ by baptism (John 3:5; Romans 6:4)

Baptism saves (1 Peter 3:21).

 

[PeterPaul]

Also from what I understand, throughout the scriptures I can plainly see that salvation is through Jesus Christ by faith and not by sacrements or works, so where dies baptism come into play?

Hmmm...if it were plain to everyone then it would be evident and we would all agree. Obviously it wasn't "plain" enough for twenty denominations to splinter from Calvin and Luther. Again, reread the entire thread. You will find the answers to the same questions you are asking.

 

[Skripper]

Thank you for all of your insite so far. I am beginning to understand more and more. I have a couple of questions. What does "Church" mean to you? What are these sacred traditions and why are they needed?

"Church" has different meanings in different contexts, throughout the Bible. Catholics recognize all the meanings of the word "Church", in all it's different contexts. Including, but not limited to, the visible, institutional Church founded by Jesus. Including, but not limited to, the invisible body of believers. What does "Church" mean to you?

 

[Blazen]

Where does it say not by works?

Eph 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Rom. 3:27-28 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

 

[Christy4Christ]

But you don't want to read James then? Is it because it doesn't fit into your doctrine?

 

[PeterPaul]

ahh....see, not so quiet now huh? ok...

Heb. 7:27, 9:12,26;10:10; 1 Pet 3:18 - Jesus died once and redeemed us all, but we participate in the application of His redemption by the way in which we live.

Heb. 9:12 - Christ's sacrifice secured our redemption, but redemption is not the same thing as salvation. We participate in and hope for salvation. Our hope in salvation is a guarantee if we are faithful to Christ to the end. But if we lose hope and fail to persevere, we can lose our salvation. Thus, by our own choosing (not by God's doing), salvation is not a certainty. While many Protestant churches believe in the theology of "once saved, always saved," such a novel theory is not found in Scripture and has never been taught by the Church.

Rom. 5:2 - we rejoice in the "hope" (not the certainty) of sharing the glory of God. If salvation is assured after accepting Jesus as Savior, why would Paul hope?

Rom. 5:5 - this "hope" does not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit.

Rom. 8:24 - this "hope" of salvation that Paul writes about is unnecessary if salvation is guaranteed. If salvation is assured, then why hope?

 

[PeterPaul]

Blazen, read this and then give us your opinion...

http://www.wels.net/sab/qa/doc-just-salv-13.html

 

[Christy4Christ]

Please open your bible to James 2:17-18 and then please kindly post what it says?

 

[Michelina]

Thank you for all of your insight so far. I am beginning to understand more and more. I have a couple of questions.

Good. We will answer them. Please read them, Blazen, and consider what we are saying. We want to speak to you from our honest hearts.

What does "Church" mean to you?

The Church is the family that God gave us in Christ. Jesus is the Head of His Mystical Body, the Church. We are all one in Him. Jesus established ONE Church (see Matt 16:18).

What are these sacred traditions and why are they needed?

Sacred Tradition is like the Sacred Scriptures. It's the Teachings of the Apostles. Scripture is the written Tradition.

Also from what I understand, throughout the scriptures I can plainly see that salvation is through Jesus Christ by faith and not by sacrements or works, so where dies baptism come into play?

I've already answered this.

Jesus told the Apostles to baptise. So they did. We do what the Apostles taught us.

PLEASE RESPOND TO THE SUBSTANCE OF WHAT WE SAY.