Catholic Doubter?

[Canadian75]

I was wondering if one can be a Roman Catholic and doubt papal authority/infallibility, purgatory, priestly celebacy, and "no salvation outside the Catholic church," and a few other issues? I have serious doubts on all of these issues and after years of reflection, still have not resolved any of them and in some cases cannot bring myself to believe in some of them. I am a confirmed Catholic, but not sure if I need more time, or need to leave the RCC. Advice would be appreciated.

Peace in Christ.

 

[Paul S]

I was wondering if one can be a Roman Catholic and doubt papal authority/infallibility, purgatory, priestly celebacy, and "no salvation outside the Catholic church," and a few other issues? I have serious doubts on all of these issues and after years of reflection, still have not resolved any of them and in some cases cannot bring myself to believe in some of them. I am a confirmed Catholic, but not sure if I need more time, or need to leave the RCC. Advice would be appreciated.

Peace in Christ.

Interesting you should post this today, on the feast of St. Thomas.

Maybe we can help you work through some of these issues and help explain why the Church teaches as it does. If you believe that the Church is guided by the Holy Ghost, and Jesus's promise that the gates of hell will not prevail over her, then the teachings of the Church are guaranteed by God as correct.

If you ultimately find that you cannot accept them, you do not have to agree, but you must submit to them and cannot publicly dissent, for to do so would be the sin of heresy. Leaving the Church, with its wonderful sacraments which bring us so much grace, should not be done.

If you want to discuss these issues here, we'll be happy to. Maybe getting input from so many other Catholics will help you see things in a new way. We all have doubts sometimes, but once you believe that the Catholic Church is the one founded by Jesus, over whom the gates of hell cannot prevail, and you see how Catholic doctrine fits together, things start to fall into place.

We'll pray for you.

 

[kimber1]

maybe if you laid out your objections to each one wwe could help you sort through them

 

[RhetorTheo]

Yes, you can be a Roman Catholic and have doubts about all of those things. I'm not sure if you would be able to take communion, however. You should investigate the Church's teachings on those issues, and properly form your conscience and beliefs.

"No Salvation Outside the Church" has evolved as a doctrine. The Church does not teach that Protestants can't go to heaven.

Priestly celibacy is not required in all parts of the Catholic Church. It is a disciplinary issue and can change if the Church feels led to change it.

Purgatory comes from books that are in the full Bible, but Protestants have removed. Without the full Bible, it's hard to understand purgatory.

As to papal authority/infallibility, you should know that it's a way that the Holy Spirit moves through the Church. It only applies on very rare occasions where the Pope speaks on matters of faith and morals, and it cannot contradict a constant teaching of the Church.

 

[InnerPhyre]

RhetorTheo explained things pretty well, but I just wanted to emphasize that "No salvation outside the Church" does NOT....I can't emphasize this loud enough....NOT mean that only Catholics will go to heaven.

Also, we are free to agree or disagree with the merits of priestly celibacy, as it's only a discipline, not dogma or doctrine.

 

[Lifesaver]

Don't leave the Church, for any reason, Canadian.

You probably need more time to read and understand those doctrines before you believe them entirely.
But first of all, you must have complete faith in the words of Jesus, that "the gates of Hell will not prevail" against the Church, and thus she will never lead us to error. Never.

Maybe you have a wrong notion about these doctrines. Papal infalibility, for instance, does not apply in all cases, nor does it mean Papal impeccability, as some Protestants think it does.
And "no salvation outside the Church" doesn't mean that every non-Catholic is effectively barred from Heaven; in fact, the Church has always believed and declared, that if it is not a person's fault that they are not Catholic, and if they try to be good and act morally, they can be saved as well. But we never know who is or isn't in such a state, and leaving the Church for any other group is the worst choice anyone can make in their life.

 

[ps139]

Hey Canadian!

Feel free to start a thread on any of the issues we can discuss them in depth, we'd be more than happy to! and Welcome!!!!

 

[Maynard Keenan]

2088 The first commandment requires us to nourish and protect our faith with prudence and vigilance, and to reject everything that is opposed to it. There are various ways of sinning against faith:

Voluntary doubt about the faith disregards or refuses to hold as true what God has revealed and the Church proposes for belief. Involuntary doubt refers to hesitation in believing, difficulty in overcoming objections connected with the faith, or also anxiety aroused by its obscurity.


So basically if you foster doubt about church teaching you are sinning. Which means basically since I am willingly and knowling doing something that supposedly is sin I am living in sin and thus would be damned to hell. always wanted to retire somewhere warm.

 

[ps139]

Involuntary doubt refers to hesitation in believing, difficulty in overcoming objections connected with the faith, or also anxiety aroused by its obscurity.

Contrary to your interpretation Maynard, involuntary doubt is not a mortal sin therefore can damn no one.

 

[geocajun]

and obstinate doubt of a post baptismal truth which must be accepted is heresy:

CCC-2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."

 

[Rosa Mystica]

and obstinate doubt of a post baptismal truth which must be accepted is heresy:

CCC-2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."

What exactly do you mean by "obstinate doubt"?

 

[Paul S]

What exactly do you mean by "obstinate doubt"?

Webster's defines "obstinate" as "perversely adhering to an opinion, purpose, or course in spite of reason, arguments, or persuasion".

So, if one has momentary doubts about a Catholic doctrine, or doubts it but tries to find out the truth in order to accept it, that's not heresy. But if you persist in believing it, even after it's all explained to you, then you become obstinant and it's probably heresy.

Sort of like when a thread around here turns from asking questions to debating or trolling.

 

[geocajun]

Webster's defines "obstinate" as "perversely adhering to an opinion, purpose, or course in spite of reason, arguments, or persuasion".

So, if one has momentary doubts about a Catholic doctrine, or doubts it but tries to find out the truth in order to accept it, that's not heresy. But if you persist in believing it, even after it's all explained to you, then you become obstinant and it's probably heresy.

Sort of like when a thread around here turns from asking questions to debating or trolling.

Thanks Paul, you explained that well

 

[Rosa Mystica]

Webster's defines "obstinate" as "perversely adhering to an opinion, purpose, or course in spite of reason, arguments, or persuasion".

So, if one has momentary doubts about a Catholic doctrine, or doubts it but tries to find out the truth in order to accept it, that's not heresy. But if you persist in believing it, even after it's all explained to you, then you become obstinant and it's probably heresy.

Sort of like when a thread around here turns from asking questions to debating or trolling.

Wouldn't this be more of a denial of belief than a doubt?

 

[geocajun]

Wouldn't this be more of a denial of belief than a doubt?

Rosa, remember, this is regarding truths which must be believed. If a person knows this, and cannot believe this truth because of an obstinant doubt, then they are guilty of heresy.

 

[Rosa Mystica]

Rosa, remember, this is regarding truths which must be believed.

As in Ex Cathedra statements, or more than just these? Could you cite an example so that I can understand better?

 

[geocajun]

As in Ex Cathedra statements, or more than just these? Could you cite an example so that I can understand better?

Any dogma of faith - such as "Jesus is True man and True God" is a truth which must be believed.

 

[Knee V]

Purgatory comes from books that are in the full Bible, but Protestants have removed. Without the full Bible, it's hard to understand purgatory.

Actually, I was convinced of the doctrine of purgatory without a single Bible verse. The doctrine is so simple and obvious that I had always believed in it, I just didn't know it.

We believe that we are sinful now. We also believe that we are not sinful in Heaven. In order for us to not be sinful in Heaven, God has to remove our sinfulness from us. There's purgatory right there for you. The doctrine is pretty much REQUIRED by basic logical thought.

People try to make purgatory out to be some elaborate doctrine with all its ins and outs. But it's not. God takes away our sinfulness when we die. Otherwise there will be sin in Heaven.

 

[ps139]

Actually, I was convinced of the doctrine of purgatory without a single Bible verse. The doctrine is so simple and obvious that I had always believed in it, I just didn't know it.

We believe that we are sinful now. We also believe that we are not sinful in Heaven. In order for us to not be sinful in Heaven, God has to remove our sinfulness from us. There's purgatory right there for you. The doctrine is pretty much REQUIRED by basic logical thought.

People try to make purgatory out to be some elaborate doctrine with all its ins and outs. But it's not. God takes away our sinfulness when we die. Otherwise there will be sin in Heaven.

I could not agree with you more my friend. Purgatory is just too logical to deny.

 

[Rosa Mystica]

Any dogma of faith - such as "Jesus is True man and True God" is a truth which must be believed.

Okay- what if someone tries their very best to believe a dogma of faith, but cannot despite their best efforts? Is such a person condemned in the eyes of God?