Can everyone who has a Catechism please open it up to page 116 and section 460 then explain to me what that means?! 
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Catechism
- Thread starter Christy4Christ
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Dominus Fidelis
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This part?
460 The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature": "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God." "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."
460 The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature": "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God." "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."
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If it is indeed that part check out Gal 4:4-7. We are the adopted children of God, and as such merit as heirs the kingdom of God- we are made in some sense partakers of the divine inheritance which was hitherto barred from us.
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nyj
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2 Peter 1:4
Through these, he has bestowed on us the precious and very great promises, so that through them you may come to share in the divine nature, after escaping from the corruption that is in the world because of evil desire.
Through these, he has bestowed on us the precious and very great promises, so that through them you may come to share in the divine nature, after escaping from the corruption that is in the world because of evil desire.
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Dominus Fidelis
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I think it is refering to our resurrected bodies that will be glorified and not subject to the curse that the world is under due to Original Sin. I don't think it is saying that we will be Gods or something like Mormonism...
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Yeah I read that part and I have also studied those verses, I don't have trouble with that part it is this that I need clarifying:
so that he, made man, might make men gods."
I just need someone to sort of translate that part into language I can understand
so that he, made man, might make men gods."
I just need someone to sort of translate that part into language I can understand
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Now we are sons and daughters of God, not slaves, we are His Children through Christ. Thus we share in the Redemption and thus in the divine nature.
In the OT, to drink the blood of animals was forbidden because it meant you would share in the animal's nature by drinking of their lifeblood. We drink the Blood of Christ (and eat His flesh) as a commemoration of Christ's sacrifice and a partake in this "meal" of Himself (in the fullness of His humanity and divinity) so as we, as the Spouse of Christ, become one flesh with Him, as His Body (not a mixed metaphor!), we truly do attain a new nature.
Euh... just to paraphrase a bit.
In the OT, to drink the blood of animals was forbidden because it meant you would share in the animal's nature by drinking of their lifeblood. We drink the Blood of Christ (and eat His flesh) as a commemoration of Christ's sacrifice and a partake in this "meal" of Himself (in the fullness of His humanity and divinity) so as we, as the Spouse of Christ, become one flesh with Him, as His Body (not a mixed metaphor!), we truly do attain a new nature.
Euh... just to paraphrase a bit.
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I do think maybe they might have worded that a little better when it was written. I am certainly not questioning their knowledge or anything but that would be very easy to misinterpret.
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That was Irenaeus in Against the Heresies who said that. Bear in mind, we don't become GOD but "gods" in the sense that in sharing the divine nature, we become "like the angels" or heavenly. The word "gods" in OT meant at times celestial beings like angels, like the term "sons of God." This does not mean equality w/the one true God but a sharing in the inheritance of redemption and the raising of our lowly bodies into something glorified through Christ our Lord.Christy4Christ said:so that he, made man, might make men gods."
I just need someone to sort of translate that part into language I can understand
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Dominus Fidelis
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Christy-
That quote is from St Thomas Aquinas, one of the greatest thinkers in the Church, so it is not written in "everyday language."
That quote is from St Thomas Aquinas, one of the greatest thinkers in the Church, so it is not written in "everyday language."
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Defens0rFidei said:
Exactly! So for everyday people to read it, it can be misconstrued. No wonder people think we are wackos LOL
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Dominus Fidelis
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Christy4Christ said:
I seriously doubt any of the anti-Catholics, or rather 99% of them, have ever read the Catechism. They learn from books like "Roman Catholicism" written by other anti-Catholics.
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Defens0rFidei said:
No, unfortunatley this was just brought to my attention by an anti-catholic on the tribulation force board so they are reading our catechism and using it against us. I have seen this more than once on anti-catholic boards. They takes bits of the catechism and use it to show how "wrong we are"
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nyj said:
nyj I am still learning, I must ask questions when something is unclear to me. I was just thinking that if is is that unclear to me as a Catholic I cannot imagine what others who are not Catholic think.
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nyj
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I have no problem with that. I encourage it to be exact. However, saying that because something can be misconstrued, it should be rewritten... is... to me... a knee-jerk reaction. If it's written in any other way, the truth of the statement may very well be masked. Remember, the Catechism you are reading is a translation from the original Latin, so the words you have read are, most likely, the ones which convey the deepest message in the Latin original.Christy4Christ said:
They will think whatever they wish. Obviously they have no desire to seek out the actual meanings, and read the actual footnotes supplied which explain the Catholic position... they just want ammunition to use against us. They are dishonest, they do not deserve to know the truth if they wish to behave in such a manner. I say, let them remain ignorant.
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KC Catholic
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Christy -
I had the same reaction when I first read that this morning. It reminded me that the LDS church teaches that when their members die that they become Gods of other worlds and I can see how this could be confused with what the passage in the CCC means.
I see also how non-Catholics could read that the wrong way as welll. But, let you're heart not be troubled.
nyj....be nice!
I had the same reaction when I first read that this morning. It reminded me that the LDS church teaches that when their members die that they become Gods of other worlds and I can see how this could be confused with what the passage in the CCC means.
I see also how non-Catholics could read that the wrong way as welll. But, let you're heart not be troubled.
nyj....be nice!
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