Casting demons into the Abyss... what does it actually achieve?

[Razare]

Kenneth Hagin asked this question to a visitation of Jesus Christ, and Jesus said it was a false teaching. Kenneth Hagin gave different reasons that Jesus provided, which weren't really based on verses in scripture. However, in my contemplating it, I have these verses:

And they begged Jesus repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss. - Luke 8:31

For one, it was the devil saying this, not Jesus. But I believe God has the authority to do this, but that authority I do not believe was ever given to Jesus Christ upon his first visit to Earth.

In revelation there are 3 keys to places/things. Key to Hades (Sheol), Key to Death, Key to the Abyss

Revelation 1:18 - Keys to Death and Hades that Jesus has in possession
Revelation 20:1 - Key to the Abyss, entrusted to an angel sent by Jehova because as this angel descends from heaven, Christ has already come. The key is not in Christ's possession

But there is someone in our prayer group, and if this man were just anyone, I wouldn't care. But this gentleman is 81, and looks as young as 70, he goes out on the streets and does ministry with us. He prays for people and they get healed. He is way way better healing minister than me, he has worked in healing rooms many years.

This gentleman binds demons to the abyss when he casts them out.

I am unable to believe the concept because I can't see it in the word, but I do wonder, let's say it's not a correct doctrine... what happens? Where do they go?

I can just imagine a door to the abyss that is locked and the devil has to run there and clunk its head against it a few times!!!

Also, I had a dream from this "Jesus" which instructed me to bind demons into the Abyss... had that dream over a year ago. I decided it was a false thing and not from God.

What is the devil trying to achieve with this lie? Because it's not just some funny idea people have, the devil is actually trying to propagate the idea.

 

[CGL1023]

Kenneth Hagin asked this question to a visitation of Jesus Christ, and Jesus said it was a false teaching. Kenneth Hagin gave different reasons that Jesus provided, which weren't really based on verses in scripture. However, in my contemplating it, I have these verses:

And they begged Jesus repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss. - Luke 8:31

For one, it was the devil saying this, not Jesus. But I believe God has the authority to do this, but that authority I do not believe was ever given to Jesus Christ upon his first visit to Earth.

In discussing the text in green, there is one verse that needs to be considered: John 3:34(Amplified); "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God [proclaiming the Father’s own message]; for God gives the [gift of the] Spirit without measure [generously and boundlessly]!" For context, John 3:31-36 should be considered.

Jesus was limited in being fully man, having laid His divinity aside. It seems that Jesus has total dominion over the demons in every situation given in the Gospels. I don't get the idea He had difficulty dealing with Legion. I have been taught that Jesus, in yielding to the demon's plea, was trying to demonstrate some principle having to do with demons. I have forgotten that principle so I won't guess at what it might have been. To me that is more reasonable than Jesus lacking power to handle demons, especially when the word doesn't indicate that.

 

[Razare]

To me that is more reasonable than Jesus lacking power to handle demons, especially when the word doesn't indicate that.

I am not questioning his power to rebuke demons. I am questioning his authority to open the abyss when this is locked place in spiritual reality. Similar to the abyss, Sheol is a spiritual place with a gate and a key that opens it. Jesus now has the key to this gate when he was raised from the dead.

The abyss is a different place in scripture but with an opening that is unlocked with a key. Jesus never says he has power open it, nor power to bind demons there.

This is a different idea to casting out a demon from a person.

People who believe this doctrine, believe you can permanently bind a demon into the abyss until the day of judgement, so they can never leave it to tempt another person. So to these people, if you encounter a demon, you can permanently remove it from doing anything, bind it into the abyss until the day of judgement.

Jesus never did this while he was on Earth and none of his disciples in scripture did this. The reason Jesus gave to Kenneth Hagin was this: "If I had that power, I would have bound all demons into the abyss that I encountered. I would have bound satan into the abyss when he tempted me... ect." [paraphrasing]

The idea is, from what Hagin said, if Jesus had that power, he would have used it completely to remove all demons permanently, including satan himself. I basically agree. Jesus wouldn't want demons strolling about here if he could help it.

 

[7trees]

And they begged Jesus repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss. - Luke 8:31

Why beg Jesus if they did not fear being cast into the Abyss? Also the keys to the Abyss are not literal but symbolic. Jesus can give that power to whom he wills. Jesus not holding a key does not mean he does not have the power. Also why not question the prophecy given to Kenneth Hagin?

Jesus not wanting demons strolling about is not the same as demons not having the right under God's Law to go and be where sin is rampant! I'd suggest you ask Christ in faith for your own revelation on the matter and be open.

 

[Daryl Gleason]

I am not questioning his power to rebuke demons. I am questioning his authority to open the abyss when this is locked place in spiritual reality. Similar to the abyss, Sheol is a spiritual place with a gate and a key that opens it. Jesus now has the key to this gate when he was raised from the dead.

The abyss is a different place in scripture but with an opening that is unlocked with a key. Jesus never says he has power open it, nor power to bind demons there.

This is a different idea to casting out a demon from a person.

People who believe this doctrine, believe you can permanently bind a demon into the abyss until the day of judgement, so they can never leave it to tempt another person. So to these people, if you encounter a demon, you can permanently remove it from doing anything, bind it into the abyss until the day of judgement.

Jesus never did this while he was on Earth and none of his disciples in scripture did this. The reason Jesus gave to Kenneth Hagin was this: "If I had that power, I would have bound all demons into the abyss that I encountered. I would have bound satan into the abyss when he tempted me... ect." [paraphrasing]

The idea is, from what Hagin said, if Jesus had that power, he would have used it completely to remove all demons permanently, including satan himself. I basically agree. Jesus wouldn't want demons strolling about here if he could help it.

I do not know Kenneth Hagin, but I do not trust this "visitation" he says that he had, as there are errors in what he claims Jesus said.

Specifically:

The reason Jesus gave to Kenneth Hagin was this: "If I had that power, I would have bound all demons into the abyss that I encountered. I would have bound satan into the abyss when he tempted me... ect." [paraphrasing]

This is human thinking and is patently false. Jesus is -- and was -- fully aware that Satan and the demons play very specific roles in God's plan. God uses them many times throughout the Bible, such as in 2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1, 1 Kings 22:22-23 and 2 Chronicles 18:21-22, Job 1:8-12 and Job 2:3-6, Matthew 4:1, Luke 13:16, and even 2 Corinthians 12:7, to name only a few.

Casting demons into the abyss is something I've done many, many times. It's something I was led to start doing by the holy spirit himself; I had never read or heard about it apart from the biblical passages with Legion.

I don't know whether Mr. Hagin performed the 1 John 4:1-3 test on this "visitation", but if he didn't, he should have -- assuming that the claim of having the visitation is true in the first place.

In Christ,
Daryl

 

[hhodgson]

Why beg Jesus if they did not fear being cast into the Abyss? Also the keys to the Abyss are not literal but symbolic. Jesus can give that power to whom he wills. Jesus not holding a key does not mean he does not have the power. Also why not question the prophecy given to Kenneth Hagin?

Very simple really! The demons who encountered Jesus (knew) who He was and they (feared) Him: "What do you want with us, Son of God?" They (demons) even shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?" (Matthew 8:29).

The demons know their (end) will be one of torment. Imagine, (if you will), that the entire legion of demons were shaking in their boots when Jesus (as the Son of God) was there casting them out. Being several thousand of them, they may have been caught off guard and had a pre-thought moment (Having a thought before actually thinking), like, "Gee, is this the "appointed" time of (our) end and be cast forever in the lake of fire at the final judgment?" (Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:10).

As far as questioning the prophecy given to Kenneth Hagin, we best leave that alone. Non-WOF (currently) are not allowed to teach here, or teach against the Word-Faith founding fathers according to our Statement of Purpose as it stands now, but... (hopefully) may be subject to change.

Concerning demons, I see no scriptural justification (for example) for telling them, "Go to hell (abyss), where you belong!" We (for sure) do have authority to cast them out and command them to leave. But as far as where they will go when cast out, I'll leave it up to what Jesus said according to (Matthew 12:43) "When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none."

Be Blessed to be a BLESSING...

 

[Daryl Gleason]

As far as questioning the prophecy given to Kenneth Hagin, we best leave that alone. Non-WOF (currently) are not allowed to teach here, or teach against the Word-Faith founding fathers according to our Statement of Purpose as it stands now, but... (hopefully) may be subject to change.

My apologies; I should be more careful about noting the subforum before I post.

Thank you for the kindly-worded rebuke.

In Christ,
Daryl

 

[now faith]

I was being oppressed by a unclean spirit for a couple of days.
I spoke to it and said go now or I will ask in Jesus name you are cast to Hell and my faith will not wavior.
Gone completely as soon as I spoke those words.
We have the authority in Christ to cast them out as well to send them as far as our faith can cast them to.

 

[timewerx]

I am unable to believe the concept because I can't see it in the word, but I do wonder, let's say it's not a correct doctrine... what happens? Where do they go?

I can just imagine a door to the abyss that is locked and the devil has to run there and clunk its head against it a few times!!!

It seems to be wrong to condemn and blame the devil look at what Jude has to say:

Jude 1:8-10
In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings. 9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”[d] 10 Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct—as irrational animals do—will destroy them.

Even the archangel Michael did not condemn the devil! And Jude says it is wrong to do so. I guess there we go... There a reason for everything. If anyone finds that strange, well, that is in the Bible and I'm pretty sure, God has reason we absolutely don't know anything about!

I may even be wrong to blame the devil (heap abuse)
.
.
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[now faith]

It seems to be wrong to condemn and blame the devil look at what Jude has to say:

Jude 1:8-10
In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings. 9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”[d] 10 Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct—as irrational animals do—will destroy them.

Even the archangel Michael did not condemn the devil! And Jude says it is wrong to do so. I guess there we go... There a reason for everything. If anyone finds that strange, well, that is in the Bible and I'm pretty sure, God has reason we absolutely don't know anything about!

I may even be wrong to blame the devil (heap abuse)
.
.
.

Jude: 1. 9. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

We have the same authority when contending with the powers of darkness.
The name of Jesus when spoken by a believer ,in faith needs no more than to be invoked.
He has put all power and dominion under his feet in this world and the world to come.
The devil is already condemned , to be cast into the lake of fire,along with those who serve him.

I do not know what Bible you are using,but it most certainly adds more than nessary.
All translation of the Bible has the translators philosophy applied ,except the King James.
The King James is translated with the author of the epistle or narrative as the authority.

 

[timewerx]

I do not know what Bible you are using,but it most certainly adds more than nessary.
All translation of the Bible has the translators philosophy applied ,except the King James.
The King James is translated with the author of the epistle or narrative as the authority.

It is necessary. Many Christians get carried away when casting out evil spirits. The Jude verses make it very simple. "May the Lord rebuke you". It has a touch of politeness to it, don't you think? And remember how Jesus cast out evil spirits and how He dealt with a seducing spirit. Again, there's a touch of politeness to it.

And another thing about "heap abuse" in context, this means to insult or make fun of or cuss or slander or falsely blame/accuse the devil. Apparently, it is a wrong thing to do. Even Jesus did not do such thing. Not me saying it but the Bible.

Why this is very important as said in Jude, people with such qualities are unGodly people and obviously cannot be trusted with the Word.

Read the rest of book of Jude. It is a very good book but sadly, rarely quoted book in the Bible.