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Cardinal Pell's appeal has been dismissed.

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by Paidiske, Aug 20, 2019.

  1. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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  2. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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  3. Gene2memE

    Gene2memE Newbie

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    Yes, agree. There is certainly the appearance (at least) of systemic sexual abuse of minors in the Catholic Church.

    Whether there actually is or not is difficult to say, as the fact that it is priests or laypeople performing the abuse tends to amplify the level of media attention. Some reports have the rate of abuse at or below the average for the wider population, some have it massively higher (depends on the place, time and details of the research).

    The Catholic Church has certainly not helped its case though, as it systematically (in the US, Canada, UK, Australia and Ireland, at the very least) and actively avoided reporting sexual abuse cases and shifted priests/laypeople to new diocese, which allows them to re-offend. The church has also been very active in not just defending itself against sexual abuse claims, but going after some of the victims with counter suits and playing cases out to avoid paying out settlements.

    Here's where I disagree.

    While the Catholic Church could certainly do with an institutional shake-up, and elements of the Church have certainty acted criminally, the Church is still a tremendous force for good.

    Yes, there needs to be proper recompense to victims. Yes, some Church leaders need to be prosecuted for their actions. And, yes there needs to be massive changes in some areas.

    However, I disagree that the dissolution of the Church, or the mass sell off of its possessions and mass prosecution of its leaders are a good thing.

    You can cut out a cancer without destroying its host.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  4. zippy2006

    zippy2006 Dragonsworn

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    Either that or Australia stumbles upon a legitimate judicial system.
     
  5. Nithavela

    Nithavela confused

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    That seems a bit excessive.
     
  6. Skewpoint

    Skewpoint New Member

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    I agree, the buildings didn't do anything to get bulldozed. As for the rest, still sounds a little lenient against those who actively engaged in the coverups.
     
  7. Eight Foot Manchild

    Eight Foot Manchild His Supreme Holy Correctfulness

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    It’s a pretty common practice, with buildings associated with atrocity.

    If I was in charge, I would leave that decision to the victims. If they want to convert it into a museum, they can do that. If they want to turn the Sistine chapel into ukulele picks, they can do that. If they want to burn the whole thing to the ground and build a Euro Disneyland on the ashes, they can do that too.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  8. Eight Foot Manchild

    Eight Foot Manchild His Supreme Holy Correctfulness

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    It’s a reality, not an ‘appearance’. That ship sailed a long time ago.

    That’s a bad analogy.

    It’s more like, if you have a global network of medical clinics that give children cancer. And the network deliberately covers it up. And is so unfathomably wealthy and powerful, they have their own country, and are accountable to no one. For hundreds of years.

    Should such an institution be allowed to continue to exist, in its capacity? I submit that it should not. It should be dissolved, and its assets and resources repurposed, redistributed, or destroyed, as needed.

    Which is exactly what would have happened by now, if we were talking about virtually any other institution on earth.
     
  9. Eight Foot Manchild

    Eight Foot Manchild His Supreme Holy Correctfulness

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    Also - six years? Gosh, I hope his poor wrist doesn’t sting too bad.
     
  10. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    Unfortunately, that sentence is pretty much in line with what would be expected for that kind of crime here.

    I watched the judge deliver his sentencing remarks in full, and he did note the very real possibility that the cardinal would die in prison.
     
  11. Occams Barber

    Occams Barber Newbie Supporter

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    It may not be over yet.

    Pell's lawyers are considering an appeal to the Supreme Court.

    Some commentators see the lack of unanimity in the decision as a possible encouragement of another appeal. Two judges agreed that the Pell guilty decision was appropriate, The third Judge disagreed. The different of view relates to different opinions on the veracity of the main (and only) witness/victim.
    OB
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  12. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    From what I'm reading elsewhere, the Supreme Court is unlikely to agree to hear an appeal, because it's not a point of law that's at issue. But I am not a legal expert, so I don't know how right that is.
     
  13. Occams Barber

    Occams Barber Newbie Supporter

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    I hope you're right. This needs to end.
    OB
     
  14. Ignatius the Kiwi

    Ignatius the Kiwi Newbie

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    I hope Pell continues to fight until he is found innocent.
     
  15. creslaw

    creslaw Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Whether Pell is innocent or not I do not know, but I certainly support his right to access all courts of appeal. Some would deny that right because they would prefer to see a possibly innocent man be punished rather than prolong the process. What a warped sense of justice and distasteful bias this case has seen on display.
     
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  16. Abraxos

    Abraxos ...

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    What a strange sequence of events to convict Pell. I can't help feel that he is being set-up.
     
  17. creslaw

    creslaw Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I do have to wonder whether the two judges denying the appeal were entirely free from considerations of the social consequences of acquitting Pell, as Justice Weinberg wanted.
     
  18. creslaw

    creslaw Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Pell's appeal to the Victorian Supreme Court has just been denied by the 2-1 decision.
    His final avenue of appeal is to the Federal High Court.
     
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  19. Occams Barber

    Occams Barber Newbie Supporter

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    Thanks. My mistake. I confused the Federal High with the Victorian Supreme.
    OB
     
  20. creslaw

    creslaw Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We can blame the US for that :)
     
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