Cannabis is not a sin?

selfinflikted · Mar 6, 2015

Strathos said:
I don't think it's a sin in and of itself, but like anything else (drinking, smoking, pornography, etc.), if you do it so much that you become obsessed/addicted and it becomes a bad habit that dominates your life, that is certainly unhealthy, physically, mentally, and spiritually.

Desk trauma · Mar 6, 2015

Belk said:
Looking at a sunset or a painting is a sin now?

Moderate to high intensity cardio would be out as well.

selfinflikted · Mar 6, 2015

Desk trauma said:
Moderate to high intensity cardio would be out as well.

Chemicals that alter your mood/perception are bad, mmmkay? Even naturally occurring ones.

Desk trauma · Mar 6, 2015

selfinflikted said:
Chemicals that alter your mood/perception are bad, mmmkay? Even naturally occurring ones.

Serotonin, adrenalin and dopamine clearly need much tighter controls place on them and activities that produce them.

selfinflikted · Mar 6, 2015

Desk trauma said:
Serotonin, adrenalin and dopamine clearly need much tighter controls place on them and activities that produce them.

Clearly.

psalms 91 · Mar 6, 2015

Should be legalized everywhere. I dont smoke but might if it was leagel

ViaCrucis · Mar 6, 2015

Here in the state of Washington we've legalized marijuana. I can, if I so desired, drive downtown to one of the recreational stores and purchase a couple grams or an edible. It is legal to do so for my own recreational use, just as I can go and pick a pack of cigarettes or buy a six pack of beer.

So now the question, of these three things which is likely the most harmful:

1) Tobacco
2) Alcohol
3) Cannabis

If anyone answered 3, cannabis, then you're a silly person. Because if you haven't learned by now how dangerous smoking cigarettes can be then have a date with the Surgeon General. How about alcohol?

Now I do smoke cigarettes, and I'm trying to quit. It's a gross, expensive habit and--I can assure you--that each time I go a day or two without a smoke I feel physically and mentally awful. That's addiction. But no, smoking cigarettes is not sinful. Why isn't it sinful? Because sin isn't doing things that are gross or physically unhealthy (otherwise you should think twice the next time you order pizza or pick up a can of Pepsi).

Smoking cigarettes, dumb? Yes. Sinful? No.

How about drinking alcohol? We have the added problem that alcohol abuse is not just a hazard to one's own body but can--and has many times--led to a hazard for others. Alcoholism is a disease that does not just impact a person's own life but others as well. That said responsible consumption of alcohol isn't a problem and millions upon millions of people are able to sit back with family and friends and consume a couple beers or a couple glasses of wine and it's not a problem.

Is alcohol sinful? Well if you believe that then I don't know how to tell you this, but Jesus didn't just drink wine, Jesus made wine for a party once; and then He used wine and gave it to His followers the night He was betrayed telling them to drink it because it was His blood and Christians have been doing that ever since. You might also need to explain why God commanded the Israelites in Deuteronomy 14:26 to buy food and liquor and celebrate together.

So now we have cannabis. So let's see while ingesting any combustible material (smoke) is bad, cannabis benefits (compared to tobacco) from not being addictive or having a cocktail of chemicals which increase the likelihood of cancer or serious illness. While you shouldn't get behind the wheel of a vehicle while high, you also shouldn't get behind the wheel while intoxicated or even really tired. Sleep deprivation messes with your head.

So cannabis is sinful why? Well if you live a place where it is illegal then you are breaking the law. But, as I said I live in a state where it's legal, so what about where it's legal?

I can't think of anything. If the argument is that it's sinful because it has an effect on the body and the mind, then you need to also claim sugar, caffeine, and whatever it is they put in those gross energy drinks are sinful substances. Also we should make sleep deprivation sinful because going without sleep is quite mind-altering as anyone who has ever suffered from insomnia can let you know. We should also categorize exercise or pleasurable activities whether listening to music, looking at beautiful artwork, or really anything fun or enjoyable because all those things release mind-altering chemicals from the brain.

In Christianity sins aren't things that we decide to moralize about because of arbitrary reasons, that's just legalism and moralism and is, if we take Scripture seriously, its own sin. Sins, instead, are actual things--things we say or do--which violate God's commandments, specifically God's commandment to love Him and love our neighbor. Things like greed and malice, things like hate and pride. Selfishness, gossip, profaning our neighbor's reputation, bearing false witness, murder, holding grudges, etc. Also in the things we fail to do, through inaction, failing to love our neighbor, failing to love God, failing to live righteously in accordance with God's will.

There's real sin, and real sin is a problem.

But there is this nasty little habit that some churches and many Christians find themselves in which instead of actually dealing with real sin and the problem with real sin (greed, malice, selfishness, arrogance, pride, ignoring the plight of the poor and the hungry) simply invent moralistic rules in order to invent a system of moral power either to manipulate others or else create a sense of personal holiness and piety (and the two are rarely mutually exclusive).

And so instead of addressing real, actual personal and social evils we like to invent new ones to rage against instead. It's a lot easier to feel morally superior when we start telling people what they can eat, drink, watch, or wear; it's a little bit harder when we have to confront the reality that we have failed to love our neighbor as we ought, that we have been bad neighbors and friends, that we have said nasty things, done nasty things, and thought nasty things against our fellow man. Because that means we'd have to admit that we, ourselves, are sinners, and that it is we--not the person over there--that must repent, confess, and admit our wrong. We would much rather ignore the harsh realities of justice and what is right and good and our failures to be just and good toward our neighbor; because we are sinners who would much rather point out the splinter in eye of another instead of address the log stuck in our own. We would much rather judge other people then be judged and acknowledge that we are judged.

-CryptoLutheran

Oafman · Mar 6, 2015

Desk trauma said:
Serotonin, adrenalin and dopamine clearly need much tighter controls place on them and activities that produce them.

Please tell me that I can still eat a steak

pittsflyer · Mar 6, 2015

The bible does say what sin is and pot use is not one, end of discussion. It does say to follow the laws of the land so if you get caught you have to face what ever the state wants to do but its not a sin against God.

bhsmte · Mar 6, 2015

Desk trauma said:
Moderate to high intensity cardio would be out as well.

Watch out for those endorphins!!!

Desk trauma · Mar 6, 2015

Oafman said:
Please tell me that I can still eat a steak

Only if your only motivation is to ingest nutrients, are not going to go above your family calorie allotment, have well controlled cholesterol and do not gain even a slightly altered state of consciousness doing so.

Your request to do so is highly suspicious to say the least and warrants investigation if not intervention to assure you are not doing something purely for enjoyment rather then utility.

Expect a knock/the door to fly off its hinges followed by your restraint and treatment shortly.

Oafman · Mar 6, 2015

Desk trauma said:
Only if your only motivation is to ingest nutrients, are not going to go above your family calorie allotment, have well controlled cholesterol and do not gain even a slightly altered state of consciousness doing so.

Your request to do so is highly suspicious to say the least and warrants investigation if not intervention to assure you are not doing something purely for enjoyment rather then utility.

Expect a knock/the door to fly off its hinges followed by your restraint and treatment shortly.

Nobody expects the Dopamine Inquisition

selfinflikted · Mar 6, 2015

Oafman said:
Nobody expects the Dopamine Inquisition

Belk · Mar 6, 2015

Desk trauma said:
Serotonin, adrenalin and dopamine clearly need much tighter controls place on them and activities that produce them.

well crude! There goes my entire weekend plans!

pittsflyer · Mar 6, 2015

I plan to start smoking pot as soon as I retire. Right now my indentrued servitude contract with my employer prohibits me from smoking it.

psalms 91 said:
Should be legalized everywhere. I dont smoke but might if it was leagel

mmksparbud · Mar 6, 2015

speaking of mind altering---anyone like hot chilies???---I use them for pain control also! Sounds contradictory, but the "burn" of the chilies releases the bodies own natural endorphins. It's as close to getting high as I have ever gotten! It has to be very hot, like tearing up hot. Then it settles down and then this "mellowness" hits. My pain recedes and I just feel better. When I have a flare up, my husband will make habeneros and jalapenos --preferably in a bean and cheese burrito. I will be crying from the heat, but not from my pain. I don't understand it, you'd think my pain alone would release the endorphins, but I guess my pain is so constant and high that it takes the extra heat of the chilies to kick in my endorphins--
SSOOOOOOOOO----is there a movement going to start to ban hot chilies and is eating them a sin now???

But just to keep one thing in mind--our bodies are the temple where God resides. Anything that dishonors it, would be wrong---including overeating.
I think we need to make the distinction of medical and non-medical use. We take all sorts of medicines that are harmful to our bodies in order to correct or help live with a problem. I do not intend on spending my life crying and screaming in pain all the time--not sleeping, not being able to think,--the pot gives me a life. To deny someone that right is, to me, a cruel sin.

JustMeSee · Mar 6, 2015

Drummer Ben said:
I'll admit it. I use cannabis and I'm proud of it. I've only ever had positive experiences with cannabis and I'm sick of the morman's telling me I'm a bad person because. I will cover three topics here. Morality, Political Science, and Medical Science. I will prove to you that cannabis is not a dangerous drug, it is a gift from god.

Why don't we jump right into the morality of it. First off I consider myself a christian but I do not believe in organized religion. I see the bible as entertainment only. The bible is a great story. To say we know what a sin is is to say we are god. No one is god and everyone is imperfect. When it boils down to it, you can only try your best. It's all your individual opinion. I have a personal relationship with god outside of the church. I do what I feel is morally right. Cannabis I see as gods creation. It really is a shame that cannabis gets such a bad rap. I thought god could not make any mistakes?

Let me talk about where I came from. I was a kid in the golden age of the pharmaceutical industry. I like to think people now are starting to gravitate towards holistic options. Back in the late 90's early 2000's though no one knew any better and that is why I do not blame my parents. If anything I have come out of this with a better understanding of life. Every kid around had to be on some form of medication. If you were overly hyper you needed to go on adderall which was basically the legal form of cocaine. If you have a sad day that must mean your depressed here, put your child on antidepressants. It was always how can I take the easy way out? Instead of working things out with the wonderful minds given to us, it was better to trip out.

I was diagnosed with ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder) they called it. It meant I had concentration issues. That I had trouble focusing. To be honest what 11 year old doesn't have concentration issues. How bout instead of sitting kids down in a chair 6 hours a day do something that is stimulating and exciting. My elementary school suggested to my parents I should go on a stimulant. My primary care doctor hooked me up with a dealer, because thats what these physiatric doctors were, dealers. She hooked me up with one and the man put me on adderall at 11 years old. Let me tell ya, the hallucinations I had one week into it, the random crying. It was a nightmare. I was quickly taken off adderall and then put on Concerta. That didn't work. You see, I was the guinea pig that had no say in any of this. After the horrible experience I had with stimulents my parents decided to the experimenting with medication for awhile. Let me tell you my school was furious. We had to hire a lawyer to defend our the rights to not put your child on medication.

Don't know what it was, could of been a permanent side effect of the stimulants but I had horrible anxiety after getting off of the drugs. I couldn't talk to people in public, I couldn't function. Basically I was scared of of my mind. We went back to the dealer for a new form of medications called SSRI's (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) more commonly referred to as antidepressants. You know the groups of drugs that turn your average teen into a columbine school shooter. It blew me away that if you looked at every school shooting, every shooter was on some form of antidepressant. Now wait a minute here I thought these drugs were solving the problems of depression? Kind of ironic that one of the side effects is a feeling of committing suicide. The way these drugs work and the way they made me feel was they take all sense of reality away from you. All sense of consequence is lost. If you feel like you wanna kill someone you had the balls to do it. Luckily I wasn't on too high of a dose but that feeling came close at times. That's why I was kept in a special ed room an hour a day sometimes more. That's why I had to have an aid follow me around everywhere. Apparently I didn't show signs of normal behavior.

Flash forward 5 or 6 years later, still on antidepressants. I believe I jumped around from Lexapro to Celexa. Right before I turned 18 I took myself off of it. When you turn 18 your parents can't force you to use any medication so I think I timed it correctly. The withdrawals man they were horrible. My anger was out of control. I think I smashed a few windows. It took almost a year to ween off.

Now today I am completely drug free. Of coarse I don't consider cannabis to be an artificial drug I see it as a plant. I have so much clarity not being on any medication. It's been 10 years since I felt this way. Now, why do I use cannabis today. To help with my anxiety. With anything in life I believe you can abuse it. If you just smoke cannabis over and over again to get as high as possible you won't learn anything from it. If you use it as an escape from your problems, you won't learn anything from it. If you use it to push yourself into new situations, to see a different perspective, to bond with others, that is where cannabis serves it's purpose recreationally. I don't see a problem with using cannabis to learn new things about yourself. Bottom line I am in control when I am high. Unlike all the other illegal drugs where they take over your mind and you become addicted cannabis works with the mind stimulating it. It was once thought that cannabis kills brain cells. We now know cannabis stimulates them. We actually have CBD receptors in our brain that bond to the CBD in cannabis. Both the cannabis plant and our bodies produce similar cannabinoids.

Fact is no one has ever died from cannabis. Fact is alcohol and cigarettes have killed more people than all the illegal drugs combined ever have. The war on drugs is hogwash. Instead of locking someone up for 50 years for smoking pot shouldn't it be your individual right to do what you want with your life as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others. Why is our government playing god?

Cannabis works better than a lot of the pharmaceutical drugs being prescribed. For instance cannabis is used by the epileptic to control their seizures. Its used by soldiers coming home from war to control their depression. Cancer patients use it to take the pain away after chemo and radiation and to give them their appetite back. Concentrated cannabis oil can cure cancer. It's used by people that are bipolar to control their emotions.

Industrial hemp is illegal too. It is a serious threat to oil industry, lumber industry, synthetic fiber industry, and plastic industry. Hemp can be made into paper, rope, clothes, cosmetics, fuel for cars, feed for cattle that is three times more nutritious than corn or soy, building material, food for humans. Fact is Henry Ford made his first Model T car out of hemp fiber board and ran the car on hemp. In 1916, the U.S. government predicted that by the 1940s all paper would come from hemp and that no more trees would need to be cut.

Instead of spending billions on stopping pot smokers that money could go towards our schools, roads, and hospitals. Instead of spending money to stop it we could be taxing cannabis. To thinks states could be making profit off of cannabis. Instead of locking drug users up for life or sending them back onto the streets to repeat their actions we should be treating drug addiction as a medical problem. Sick people who need help from god.

To make a long story short, I believe cannabis to be a god given human right that no one can take way from you. I'm sick of people of the church calling me a punk. I don't go around vandalizing property and taking candy from a baby. I respect every human being on this planet. I do not judge others as that is not my job. I wanted to share my story on here in hopes that I could shed some light of cannabis to the christian world.

If you don't believe in organized religion, why in the world are you listening to Mormons?

You should consider what your god may order and local laws.

Neogaia777 · Mar 6, 2015

So, smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol to excess is a sin, (of which I guilty of the former, and I consider it a "sin" on my part and do not try to "justify" it, but acknowledge it as a "sin") Anyways, smoking cigarettes, or drinking alcohol to get drunk ARE SINS, but smoking pot to get "high" is not?

ViaCrucis · Mar 6, 2015

Neogaia777 said:
So, smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol to excess is a sin, (of which I guilty of the former, and I consider it a "sin" on my part and do not try to "justify" it, but acknowledge it as a "sin") Anyways, smoking cigarettes, or drinking alcohol to get drunk ARE SINS, but smoking pot to get "high" is not?

One can't get drunk off of tobacco. So that point is rather moot.

While I advocate drinking responsibly it might be nice if we at least understand that no matter how much alcohol one has consumed, a little bit is still affects the mind and the body; in fact virtually all substances have some sort of effect.

I am hard pressed to conceive of how one can moralize in a black and white fashion on what is fundamentally a gradient. What does, however, make sense is what seems like a very common sense warning in Scripture against the excesses of alcohol consumption.

Given the nature of the beast, I am hard pressed to see how cannabis is much different. If you can't smoke pot responsibly then don't, if it's causing a problem in your life, then stop. Just like alcohol.

At the end of the day I remain deeply concerned with vain rule-making for the sake of morality control.

Here's an example, as a child I was routinely told about the dangers of things such as Dungeons & Dragons, of certain fantasy television shows (the two big ones I wasn't allowed to watch was He-Man and the Smurfs), and likewise I grew up in an environment that taught that all alcohol consumption was sinful (because Jesus drank grape juice) and likewise there could be little more dangerous than marijuana.

All the messages lots of kids got back in the 80's. "There are witches sacrificing children and cats to Satan in the woods!" etc.

As I got older several things:

1) It was all bullcrud.

2) The moral-religious justifications for many of these things were created completely out of thin air: Dungeons & Dragons could result in demons taking over your life; if you get buzzed on beer demons can get inside of your head. Neat question: According to who? How? What possible biblical or theological justification, in Scripture or otherwise, from which to reach that position?

3) It's all so very, very modern. It may seem to a lot of non-religious folks like it's just carry-over from medieval superstition and the like; but so much of it is just so incredibly new. Even the whole "witch hysteria" better describes not the middle ages but the modern period: For most of the middle ages Christian clergy and theologians regarded the belief in witches as both heretical and superstitious, the author of the Mallus Maleficarum has to spend considerable effort to defend his position on the dangers of witches and witchcraft to a religious audience that for most of history regarded such ideas as nothing more than folk traditions from rural populations to be rejected not encouraged. And witch-hunting was banned in most of Europe, Charlemagne passed laws which made witch-hunting a crime punishable by death; ya know, because murder.

Further, teetotalism is rarely found in the Christian tradition except through the voluntary asceticism of certain monastics. It is otherwise a phenomenon that seems to chiefly have arisen out of post-Protestant pietistic traditions--most notably taking a strong foothold in the Wesleyan tradition which, through the Second Great Awakening which saw the real birth of the American Revivalist tradition was also a steeping of the American religious landscape into certain streams of the Wesleyan tradition which in that period gave birth to the Holiness Movement (from which later arose Pentecostalism), a religious tradition that became profoundly entrenched in the United States, so much so that by 1920 it was actually possible for the Temperance Movement in the US to get the government to sign a constitutional amendment prohibiting the sale and consumption of alcohol for thirteen years.

Religion in America still hasn't recovered from the 19th century, and in a lot of cases through the concerted efforts of certain groups, movements, and persons of clout has continued to do strange things to Christianity up and into the 21st century.

-CryptoLutheran

OldWiseGuy · Mar 7, 2015

Drummer Ben said:
Exactly selfinflikted. Reason why I'm posting this is I am frustrated with all the people who call me a bum, loser, punk, low life with no ambition because I use cannabis to lift myself up. Live and let live I say, to each his own. Other people will have different opinions on something.

Of coarse if your interfering with others, hurting others then your are interfering with somebody else's life. You are not only sinning but bringing another person down with you. I think that is a horrible thing to do. Whatever you want to do in your own private time that is none of my business. Bottom line is no law shall infringe upon your individual rights. If somebody wants to worship satan in their free time I don't have a problem with that. It's not my job to convert everyone to Christianity. Muslims can be Muslims, Jews can be Jews. In the end we are all people and we should respect each other. Every branch of Christianity thinks their the ultimate religion. Catholics, Mormon's, Baptists. That is why I follow my own religion of Chirstianity. The only thing I know for sure is their is a god above us that created this world for all of us to share.

I'm also saying that no one should be judging but God. Who are we to judge others. We are all sinners no better or worse. I wouldn't say I'm a better person than hitler because I don't compare myself to other people.

Now beyond that it seems no one is willing to bring the facts up about cannabis. That if somebody is using it, they shall. I'm a Christian who uses cannabis and I'm proud.

Welcome to the forums!

I think all mind altering drugs should be legal, and available to people of all ages (parents should supervise the dosage for small children). I used to sneak cigarettes and beer before I was of legal age and I could never see the sense to it.

I do have question. If you don't believe the words of Christ or his disciples how can you say that you are a Christian?

Cannabis is not a sin?

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