Can You Move if Your slain in the spirit

[Svt4Him]

Svt4Him,

I guess my mindset is different from yours. I am the kind of guy that always - ALWAYS! - needs a scripture and verse to support everything I believe. I am this way to a fault, as you probably have noticed, but that is the way I am. Because God loves all of His children, I think He loves us the way we are: different; not clones. Probably, the family of God needs both (all) viewpoints and probably we can learn from one another. I am Vineyard by choice and I know a lot of my colleagues are experiential in their relationship to God. I am more dogmatic (a word I hate!), but please don’t judge the Vineyard by me. I am what is called post-Wimber Vineyard and, though Charismatic in my nurture I am Evangelical by nature.

Regarding the theme of this thread, when I see people flocking to meetings in churches (as they do in my area) for no other reason than they want to see (and be in) what strikes me as a religious snake-oil show, it goes against my temperament. I am not saying I am right and they are wrong, but it always comes down to “show me in the Bible.” If it has a scripture or scriptural precedent to support it, I am satisfied. If it doesn’t, I will have to be convinced in other ways, I suppose.

Because you and I have stood on opposite sides of issues, I just wanted you to know where I am coming from. I do respect your beliefs and opinions and, in some ways, wish I were more like you.

I guess I can only say, By the grace of God I am what I am.

Respectfully,
Jim
\o/

No worries, we don't differ all that much.

 

[Blade]

What is all this emphasis on "carpet time?" Some people – I am talking Charismatics here; at least the one’s I prefer to hang with - believe that in all too many of these carpet services, when emphasis is directed away from the person and work of Jesus Christ toward some temporary emotional high, like falling on the carpet, the Holy Spirit is, in fact, grieved and leaves a service. Goosebumps are not evidence He is present - you can get goosebumps in a theater or at an amusement park.

It is the Spirit’s mission, I thought, to focus attention toward Jesus, not toward Himself and especially not toward some self-centered, self-serving emotional high He can give us. We are not the center of the Holy Spirit’s attention, Jesus Christ is. I thought that was a fundamental Charismatic doctrine.

Do people fall under the power of God? Surely it happens (it has happened to me, so I am not a total skeptic), but when “manifestations” become the climax, even the focus of a gathering of Christians and we - and not Jesus Christ - become the purpose of our being together, something is seriously wrong. When the focus of our gatherings becomes what we can personally receive from it and not what Christ receives from it, something is very self-centered about our relationship with the Lord. We like to say, “It’s not about me; it’s about Him,” but our actions belie us. So we attend churches and meetings where we get the greatest spiritual high. We are supposed to bless the LORD; we are not supposed to be the subjects of blessing.

John 15.26-27 "When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me. And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.​

Because I so strongly believe in this central mission of the Spirit (to direct us away from ourselves and toward Christ) and am not that concerned about all the peripheral stuff (like falling down in a church service), I am going to be one of the lone voices in this thread, at the risk of censure, who will state that much of what passes off as a “move of the Spirit” might just in fact be just that - the Holy Spirit moving OUT of a gathering to leave people to get their weekly dose of emotional strokes. And some discerning people are not far behind Him when He leaves.

Jim
\o/

You know what Jim I agree with you for the most part. I was always taught when I was young to never chase after the gifts or to really go by feelings. Now to me it's just a overwhelming presence of God like in John when they came to get Jesus, and he said "whom do you seek" and as soon as he said I am he they fell backwards to the ground. I think for the most part a lot of people believe that they are just supposed to fall. You just don't hear much or any teaching on this. Some of my best experiences was when people would just fall with no one touching them at all, it was all God. I am sure that some people to focus on such things but I really don't see much of this happening. I believe these are the end times and we haven't seen anything yet.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I think it vary's with each person. Some put great imphasis on it some do not. Some are mature, some are becoming mature by doing and saying a lot of stupid things. Man looks on the outside but God looks at the heart.

 

[TwistrAndy]

To JimB who said that the phrase "slain in the spirit" does not exist in the Bible. You seemed to kind of shun this experience. Well,if you want to say that since the words "slain in the spirit" are not written in the Bible, but if that is a valid argument, then it means that the doctrine of the Trinity is erroneous as well, because the word "Trinity" does not appear in the Bible. Similarly, the word "Rapture" is not in any English version of the Bible, and the phrase "the Second Coming" is not used anywhere in Scripture, yet these doctrines are clearly taught in the Bible. So if we say that being "slain in the Spirit" is wrong simply because that phrase is not in the Bible, then we would have to say that the doctrines of the Rapture, the Second Coming, and the Trinity are wrong as well.
Someone also said it was wrong to pursue a blessing from God, well in the Bible many people pursued blessings. Here are some examples:
"But eagerly desire the greater gifts." (1 Corinthians 12:31)
"Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy." (1 Corinthians 14:1)

"I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy." (1 Corinthians 14:5)

"Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church." (1 Corinthians 14:12)

"Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues." (1 Corinthians 14:39)

"do not treat prophecies with contempt." (1 Thessalonians 5:20)

These passages demonstrate that we are supposed to desire and have spiritual experiences. Granted we need to keep things in balance and make sure that our focus is on the Lord rather than on the experiences, but there is nothing unScriptural about having spiritual experiences or desiring spiritual experiences.

There is another problem with this argument as well. It assumes that people are coming to the front of the sanctuary for the purpose of falling to the floor, but that is a poor assumption. Many people have big needs in their lives, and they come forward in order to receive prayer from the pastor or from a prayer team member. They're not coming forward in order to fall down (in fact, many people hope that they don't fall to the floor), they simply have the need for an experienced prayer warrior to pray for them. It is erroneous to claim that all of those people are seeking the "spiritual experience" of falling down in church.

 

[Jim B]

To JimB who said that the phrase "slain in the spirit" does not exist in the Bible. You seemed to kind of shun this experience. Well,if you want to say that since the words "slain in the spirit" are not written in the Bible, but if that is a valid argument, then it means that the doctrine of the Trinity is erroneous as well, because the word "Trinity" does not appear in the Bible. Similarly, the word "Rapture" is not in any English version of the Bible, and the phrase "the Second Coming" is not used anywhere in Scripture, yet these doctrines are clearly taught in the Bible. So if we say that being "slain in the Spirit" is wrong simply because that phrase is not in the Bible, then we would have to say that the doctrines of the Rapture, the Second Coming, and the Trinity are wrong as well.

Hey Twister, guess what, the word “Bible” isn’t in the Bible either. But so what? Some might argue that even though the word “Trinity” is not in the Bible, it is taught in the Bible. The same with “Rapture” and “Second Coming.” Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for “slain in the Spirit,” at least in the prayerline form it is usually practiced today. I haven't found it yet, either in Jesus' ministry or in the ministry of the Apostles.

Someone also said it was wrong to pursue a blessing from God, well in the Bible many people pursued blessings. Here are some examples:

Huh? Who said that? Not me! So I will pass on to your next topic ...

"But eagerly desire the greater gifts." (1 Corinthians 12:31)
"Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy." (1 Corinthians 14:1)

"I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy." (1 Corinthians 14:5)

"Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church." (1 Corinthians 14:12)

"Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues." (1 Corinthians 14:39)

"do not treat prophecies with contempt." (1 Thessalonians 5:20)

These passages demonstrate that we are supposed to desire and have spiritual experiences. Granted we need to keep things in balance and make sure that our focus is on the Lord rather than on the experiences, but there is nothing unScriptural about having spiritual experiences or desiring spiritual experiences.

What has desiring spiritual gifts got to do with desiring to be "slain in the Spirit?" You are talking apples and oranges here. We are urged in scripture to do the former; not the latter.

There is another problem with this argument as well. It assumes that people are coming to the front of the sanctuary for the purpose of falling to the floor, but that is a poor assumption. Many people have big needs in their lives, and they come forward in order to receive prayer from the pastor or from a prayer team member. They're not coming forward in order to fall down (in fact, many people hope that they don't fall to the floor), they simply have the need for an experienced prayer warrior to pray for them. It is erroneous to claim that all of those people are seeking the "spiritual experience" of falling down in church.

Some people may not come "to the front of the sanctuary" for the purpose of "falling to the floor" as you claim but if you don't know that some are in the prayerline for that very purpose you could either be in denial or not very discerning.

Thanx for your response, Twister, but I'll stand by my "assumptions."

\o/

 

[TwistrAndy]

To me, since the word 'slain in the spirit' is not mentioned, I must look for experiences similar to that. And it happened quite often. Many people were put into trances and deep sleeps similar to that nature. I did sound like kind of know-it-all in that last response, and I'm sorry because I don't know it all. But, I felt strongly on this issue, and I don't think this thing should be passed off or shunned, because it totally changed my life, and set my mind on God. Sorry for any hostility that I may have caused. But someone did say it was wrong to pursue a blessing, and it was not you.