Can you morally call yourself a Christian if you vote conservative.

Crowns&Laurels · Aug 28, 2015

Marius27 said:
Lots of people disagree with you on that point. Don't assume your beliefs are infallible.

And they are simply wrong, because these lots of people have blatantly chosen to follow by their own righteousness and biases rather then God's. The world is sacked with it, and the Bible tells it.

People need to wake up and realize how we went from the Seven Vices and God's natural laws to 'liberology'- condoning a complete jump off to the very fundamentals of Godliness with a cover all 'the only command is love'.

Here's something to heed:

rltrdc · Aug 30, 2015

So Donald Trump is the more virtuous candidate than say Bernie Sanders?

Hmmmm... interesting.

gpldisciple · Aug 30, 2015

When Jesus returns he will not be joining the party that is most correct, he will return to assume complete authority.
Our loyalty best be with Him, not any politician.

dogs4thewin · Aug 30, 2015

daleksteve said:
Why?

Jesus was the world first liberal or socialist maybe a better term.

How so? He never once said for people to take things that they did not earn, nor did He ever even ALLOW for that. He expects us to work for our dues. Think about the parable about the owner who gave everyone the same amount for working the time THEY agreed to work for a certain price. Another example, the parable of the owner and serventants with the talents. Who did Jesus praise? It was NOT the one who simply returned the money. It was the two that did what? Put the money to work.

RDKirk · Aug 30, 2015

gpldisciple said:
When Jesus returns he will not be doing the party that is most correct, he will return to assume complete authority.
Our loyalty best be with Him, not any politician.

Actually, Jesus demands us to stake our loyalty on Him right now. When He returns, it will be too late to say, "We wuz just going along with that guy while waiting for you to get back."

RDKirk · Aug 30, 2015

dogs4thewin said:
How so? He never once said for people to take things that they did not earn, nor did He ever even ALLOW for that. He expects us to work for our dues. Think about the parable about the owner who gave everyone the same amount for working the time THEY agreed to work for a certain price.

The people who worked only part time got as much as the people who worked full time. That's certainly not a good example of the point you're trying to make.

Another example, the parable of the owner and serventants with the talents. Who did Jesus praise? It was NOT the one who simply returned the money. It was the two that did what? Put the money to work.

But the guy who got one talent worked just as hard as the guy with five talents--he provided a 100% increase. Yet he didn't get the same level of reward even though he showed the same level of increase. Again, not really proving the point you're trying to make.

What we do see in scripture is:

"From whom much is given, much more is required."

Luke 12 lays out the basic economic theory of the Body of Christ: Each person is due enough to meet his needs on a day-to-day basis. If we get any more than that, it is not ours to hoard for ourselves, but to treat as a stewardship making sure Christ's other servants get what they need as well.

This is demonstrated in Acts 2 and Acts 4, and defined in detail in 2 Corinthians 8:13-15. In fact, Paul provides the specific OT scripture for how resources are to be handled in the Body of Christ.

In discussing how money should be handled among Christians, Paul references Exodus 16, the story of the manna in the wilderness. In that story, God has dictated that each person is to get precisely the same amount of manna each day, one measured omer. With God having dictated a specific amount, we then know that "too much" is more than God has specified and too little would be less than God has specified.

It goes on to say that "some collected much"--that would be more than one omer--and "some collected little"--that would be less than one omer. But it says that when all the manna was measured out, "those who gathered much did not have too much (more than an omer) and those who had little did not have too little (less than an omer)."

We see that Jesus expects each of us to give 100% even though we may not get any more than the person who gave only 10%...but we will have our needs met. IOW, the actual economy of the Body of Christ is: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

Albion · Aug 30, 2015

RDKirk said:
We see that Jesus expects each of us to give 100% even though we may not get any more than the person who gave only 10%...but we will have our needs met. IOW, the actual economy of the Body of Christ is: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

This is out of whack. For one thing, you're talking about government, not the church or body of Christ. For another, the parable of the workers is not applicable here, for the reason that they were paid what they contracted for. It's not as though some redistribution of income scheme or religious version of "From each according to his ability; to each according to his need" is the moral of that story!

SoldierOfTheKing · Aug 30, 2015

rltrdc said:
So Donald Trump is the more virtuous candidate than say Bernie Sanders?

Trump is if nothing else a fighter. Sanders... well look how he reacted when BLM disrupted his rally.

dogs4thewin · Aug 30, 2015

RDKirk said:
The people who worked only part time got as much as the people who worked full time. That's certainly not a good example of the point you're trying to make.

But the guy who got one talent worked just as hard as the guy with five talents--he provided a 100% increase. Yet he didn't get the same level of reward even though he showed the same level of increase. Again, not really proving the point you're trying to make.

What we do see in scripture is:

"From whom much is given, much more is required."

Luke 12 lays out the basic economic theory of the Body of Christ: Each person is due enough to meet his needs on a day-to-day basis. If we get any more than that, it is not ours to hoard for ourselves, but to treat as a stewardship making sure Christ's other servants get what they need as well.

This is demonstrated in Acts 2 and Acts 4, and defined in detail in 2 Corinthians 8:13-15. In fact, Paul provides the specific OT scripture for how resources are to be handled in the Body of Christ.

In discussing how money should be handled among Christians, Paul references Exodus 16, the story of the manna in the wilderness. In that story, God has dictated that each person is to get precisely the same amount of manna each day, one measured omer. With God having dictated a specific amount, we then know that "too much" is more than God has specified and too little would be less than God has specified.

It goes on to say that "some collected much"--that would be more than one omer--and "some collected little"--that would be less than one omer. But it says that when all the manna was measured out, "those who gathered much did not have too much (more than an omer) and those who had little did not have too little (less than an omer)."

We see that Jesus expects each of us to give 100% even though we may not get any more than the person who gave only 10%...but we will have our needs met. IOW, the actual economy of the Body of Christ is: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

I understand they got the same amount, but that was because they AGREED to work for the same amount. If the owner had said I will pay you by the hour and THEN paid them the same amount well that would not be the same. As for the talents The one that had one talent gave NOTHING back other than what he was given. The other two actually put the money to work and earned MORE than they were given to give back to the master.

RDKirk · Aug 30, 2015

Albion said:
This is out of whack. For one thing, you're talking about government, not the church or body of Christ. For another, the parable of the workers is not applicable here, for the reason that they were paid what they contracted for. It's not as though some redistribution of income scheme or religious version of "From each according to his ability; to each according to his need" is the moral of that story!

No, you're talking about the government, I'm talking about the Body of Christ, just as Paul was talking about the Body of Christ. I make no reference to human government whatsoever--you're the one who brought that into the discussion...you may need to get that knee checked.

RDKirk · Aug 30, 2015

dogs4thewin said:
I understand they got the same amount, but that was because they AGREED to work for the same amount. If the owner had said I will pay you by the hour and THEN paid them the same amount well that would not be the same. As for the talents The one that had one talent gave NOTHING back other than what he was given. The other two actually put the money to work and earned MORE than they were given to give back to the master.

I meant the guy with two talents. My real point is that the parable does not prove the point you're trying to prove.

dogs4thewin · Aug 30, 2015

RDKirk said:
I meant the guy with two talents. My real point is that the parable does not prove the point you're trying to prove.

Christ expected us to work. The thing is with socialism you will run out of other people's money. There is a difference in me giving you what you NEED that I happen to have and you feeling as then you are ENTITLED to what I have WORKED for even if it is over and beyond what you can afford. Otherwise, what would be the point in people working to improve themselves?

RDKirk · Aug 30, 2015

dogs4thewin said:
Christ expected us to work. The thing is with socialism you will run out of other people's money. There is a difference in me giving you what you NEED that I happen to have and you feeling as then you are ENTITLED to what I have WORKED for even if it is over and beyond what you can afford. Otherwise, what would be the point in people working to improve themselves?

Yes, we in the Body of Christ are to work, and work hard to do all we are capable of doing.

And then make sure everyone in the Body of Christ has all his needs met.

Albion · Aug 31, 2015

RDKirk said:
No, you're talking about the government, I'm talking about the Body of Christ, just as Paul was talking about the Body of Christ. I make no reference to human government whatsoever--you're the one who brought that into the discussion...you may need to get that knee checked.

No need to get agitated. It did look to me that government was implied in the comments I was reading. If that was not correct, then that's all there is to it.

dogs4thewin · Aug 31, 2015

RDKirk said:
Yes, we in the Body of Christ are to work, and work hard to do all we are capable of doing.

And then make sure everyone in the Body of Christ has all his needs met.

Their NEEDS being the key word there. I may want to complete my collection of Nancy Drew video games; that does not mean that you owe me giving me a game. Even with food I may WANT a streak dinner, but if I cannot afford a streak dinner then a hamburger works just as well. I may WANT a three bedroom house, but I do not NEED a three bedroom house for shelter. I may WANT name brand clothes, but I do not need name brand clothes only cover. However, to suppose that a Christian should not be able to have those things if he or she can afford them and still live within his or her needs is not right.

RDKirk · Aug 31, 2015

Albion said:
No need to get agitated. It did look to me that government was implied in the comments I was reading. If that was not correct, then that's all there is to it.

That is my point, precisely my point. Only in America do Christians have that specific reaction to the reading of 2 Corinthians 8, and that is a Satan-trained reaction of anti-Church Americanism...which is so inculcated into Christians in America that they are uniquely blind to recognizing it.

Albion · Aug 31, 2015

RDKirk said:
That is my point, precisely my point. Only in America do Christians have that specific reaction to the reading of 2 Corinthians 8, and that is a Satan-trained reaction of anti-Church Americanism...which is so inculcated into Christians in America that they are uniquely blind to recognizing it.

That sounds really perceptive, but if you've explained your idea in an imprecise way, you can expect people not to get your meaning. Don't automatically blame it on something else.

daleksteve · Sep 8, 2015

dogs4thewin said:
How so? He never once said for people to take things that they did not earn, nor did He ever even ALLOW for that. He expects us to work for our dues. Think about the parable about the owner who gave everyone the same amount for working the time THEY agreed to work for a certain price. Another example, the parable of the owner and serventants with the talents. Who did Jesus praise? It was NOT the one who simply returned the money. It was the two that did what? Put the money to work.

Jesus also said “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; ..

And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.”

This verse alone shows that socialism is a biblical command.

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.”

daleksteve · Sep 8, 2015

gpldisciple said:
What matters is what God says on the issues you mentioned.

Gay sex- man shall not lay with man as he does with women, it is an abomination.
Abortion- Thou shalt not kill.

So yes, I am "hung up" on those issues.

So am i but the difference is i am not full of hate over it. I don't hate gay people or women who have abortions.

People listen to me more about Jesus when i show them his love rather than banging on about your going to hell cause your gay which is all fundermentalist Christians seem to do sadly.

daleksteve · Sep 8, 2015

dogs4thewin said:
How so? .

There are over 2,000 Biblical verses in which scripture demands Christians tend to the needs of the poor.

"Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the Kingdom of God" Luke 6 20-26

"But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just."

Luke 14:13-14

That's just a sample so lets stop pretending Jesus was not a socialist.

Can you morally call yourself a Christian if you vote conservative.

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