Can you fall from being saved?

naos said:

Freewill is an illusion.

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Jesus' very invitation, "Come to me all who labor and are heavy laden..." indicates a choice. The rich ruler made a choice when he chose riches over the kingdom of God. "Enter the strait gate..." is another invitation to make a choice. The wide gate and broad way leads to destruction, so we can choose either the narrow way or the broad way, a choice.

Freewill is not an illusion, it is a fact.

naos said:

NKJV


Freewill is a construct and byproduct of being an intellegent being, as opposed to animals that run on pure instinct.

Freewill is a smokescreen for pride.

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Again no I do not think so, I think it is our own man created socitey that has really created the illusion of no free will, Most people are trapped by family responsibities and the 40 hour week, Wage slaves, Low income, suffering.

That is all created by man. Not God

Same grind day in day out, Life can lose its flavor and what should be blessings become burdens,

As for me, I am incredibly blessed, I am a US Merchant seaman, I work when I want to work, I make excellent money, I enjoy my job, It is the best job in the whole world and I work in the US fleet which is the best fleet in whole world, I can live anywhere in the world I want to live,

Today I live in the Philippines, I have so many freewill choices I do not know what to do with them all, I accepted Christ and now all my freewill choices center around him,

My wife and I choose to start a ministry here in PI, Nobody twisted our arms, No body is forcing us to live here in PI, We have talked about moving but we both really like it here, My wife is a Filipina,

I am fortunate in that I am in a position to recognize my choices, I have many more choices than the average person, That is because I live outside the normal world of so called civilized society, And what a blessing THAT is!!!

My wife and I could not find a church we liked, So we started our own. God has blessed our little church in many ways, We have many people interested in what we are teaching, What do we teach? The gospel of Jesus Christ,

We have stripped away as many of the man made rules and regs as possible
I an sure we are not perfect, We do not pretend to be,

Me being an ex Greek Byzantine Catholic and my wife a strict SDA we were choking on man made rules, doctrines and legalisms, What a breath of fresh air we experianced when we used our God given free will to break out of these opressive systems, I had all ready left the Catholic church long before I met my wife but I was very heavy into Baptists protestant thinking,

And it probably still shows,

In our church everybody participates and we learn together, We encourage any one to search what we say and if they disagree to bring it to our attention during the service or any other time, After all, We could be wrong,

Any member of the church can give the lesson or the sermon, After we finish we have open discussion and debate to see if these things are true,

All because of freewill, This is what we chose to do, Free will is beautiful thing, A great gift from our father,

yours in Christ
deu 58

Hello Jim

Jim Woodell said:

Jesus' very invitation, "Come to me all who labor and are heavy laden..." indicates a choice. The rich ruler made a choice when he chose riches over the kingdom of God. "Enter the strait gate..." is another invitation to make a choice. The wide gate and broad way leads to destruction, so we can choose either the narrow way or the broad way, a choice.

Freewill is not an illusion, it is a fact.

Click to expand...

Well said and true, The thing that scares people about freewill is that we are responsible for the choices we make, God is not the master of puppets,

yours in Christ
deu 58

deu58 said:

Again no I do not think so, I think it is our own man created socitey that has really created the illusion of no free will, Most people are trapped by family responsibities and the 40 hour week, Wage slaves, Low income, suffering.

That is all created by man. Not God

Same grind day in day out, Life can lose its flavor and what should be blessings become burdens,

As for me, I am incredibly blessed, I am a US Merchant seaman, I work when I want to work, I make excellent money, I enjoy my job, It is the best job in the whole world and I work in the US fleet which is the best fleet in whole world, I can live anywhere in the world I want to live,

Today I live in the Philippines, I have so many freewill choices I do not know what to do with them all, I accepted Christ and now all my freewill choices center around him,

My wife and I choose to start a ministry here in PI, Nobody twisted our arms, No body is forcing us to live here in PI, We have talked about moving but we both really like it here, My wife is a Filipina,

I am fortunate in that I am in a position to recognize my choices, I have many more choices than the average person, That is because I live outside the normal world of so called civilized society, And what a blessing THAT is!!!

My wife and I could not find a church we liked, So we started our own. God has blessed our little church in many ways, We have many people interested in what we are teaching, What do we teach? The gospel of Jesus Christ,

We have stripped away as many of the man made rules and regs as possible
I an sure we are not perfect, We do not pretend to be,

Me being an ex Greek Byzantine Catholic and my wife a strict SDA we were choking on man made rules, doctrines and legalisms, What a breath of fresh air we experianced when we used our God given free will to break out of these opressive systems, I had all ready left the Catholic church long before I met my wife but I was very heavy into Baptists protestant thinking,

And it probably still shows,

In our church everybody participates and we learn together, We encourage any one to search what we say and if they disagree to bring it to our attention during the service or any other time,

Any member of the church can give the lesson or the sermon, After we finish we have open discussion and debate to see if these things are true,

All because of freewill, This is what we chose to do, Free will is beautiful thing, A great gift from our father,

yours in Christ
deu 58

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Hi deu, I don't agree with you many of your statements but you are saying something very intersting that got my attention.

I am a woman so I can not lead church but I will pursuade my son to be a pastor so I can attend my ideal church. He will not be a proffesional pastor though. He has to be a volunteer for the Lord completely.

Thank you, deu.

Hello all

joyinhim said:

Hi deu, I don't agree with you many of your statements but you are saying something very intersting that got my attention.

I am a woman so I can not lead church but I will pursuade my son to be a pastor so I can attend my ideal church. He will not be a proffesional pastor though. He has to be a volunteer for the Lord completely.

Thank you, deu.

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I only want to clarify something, I am not a pastor, I am not qualified to be a pastor, I do not have the authority or the training to be a pastor,

I am just a simple man saved by the precious blood of Jesus Christ. Like everybody else I can only see through the glass darkly today, I have many more questions than I do answers,

I am intelligent enough to know that it is not possible for me to be right in all things,

It is my hope that someday our little church will acquire a real pastor, And when we find one we will take care of him and submit to his authority,

yours in Christ
deu 58

Like I said, freewill is a smokescreen for human pride.

Gal 5:4-5
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
NKJV


Matt 22:13-14
14 For many are called, but few are chosen."
NKJV

naos said:

Like I said, freewill is a smokescreen for human pride.

Gal 5:4-5
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
NKJV


Matt 22:13-14
14 For many are called, but few are chosen."
NKJV

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What does your first statement have to do with the verses you have quoted?

Can you fall from something that you have never had? ("...you have fallen from grace.")

Who are the chosen? Those who chose to accept the death, burial and resurrection of Christ chose to be chosen. Christ is our salvation, if we choose to accept him. That is not pride, it is humble to admit that I must have a Savior.

Read Phil. 2:5 that instructs us to have the same mind that Christ had. What did he do? He "emptied himself" and it was by his choice. Scripture says, "He made himself nothing..." His offering was "freewill."

Jim Woodell said:

What does your first statement have to do with the verses you have quoted?

Can you fall from something that you have never had? ("...you have fallen from grace.")

Who are the chosen? Those who chose to accept the death, burial and resurrection of Christ chose to be chosen. Christ is our salvation, if we choose to accept him. That is not pride, it is humble to admit that I must have a Savior.

Read Phil. 2:5 that instructs us to have the same mind that Christ had. What did he do? He "emptied himself" and it was by his choice. Scripture says, "He made himself nothing..." His offering was "freewill."

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"Who are the chosen? Those who chose..."

You have proven my point perfectly. Thank you so much.

naos said:

"Who are the chosen? Those who chose..."

You have proven my point perfectly. Thank you so much.

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Like I said, freewill is a smokescreen for human pride.

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I am glad to prove your point perfectly, "The chosen are those who choose to chosen." That is what the Bible teaches, SO how is "freewill a smokescreen for human pride?"

Jim Woodell said:

I am glad to prove your point perfectly, "The chosen are those who choose to chosen." That is what the Bible teaches, SO how is "freewill a smokescreen for human pride?"

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The bible doesn't teach that in anyway. If your life as a Christian has devolved to nothing but eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, no worries. You are still saved. You didn't save yourself in the first place.

But if you really want to walk with God in the Kingdom now, perhaps a little reality and humility is in order.

Trusting in God is the only thing. Everything else is pride.

Hey naos, what happened to holo?

I find this "free will is an illusion" very interesting. Not saying I agree with it or not agree with it.

What I find interesting is that we have been predestined since before the foundations of the world. I've always thought that it was a matter of WHEN we came to christ rather than IF. Because it seems that our destiny was already decided by God.

But then I think...If God is an all knowing God and he knew who was going to CHOOSE him and who were not, that it's quite possible that we have free will in this choice. Our predestination comes from God foreknowing our decision.

joyinhim said:

Hey naos, what happened to holo?

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Don't worry! Holo will be back from the wilderness during the weekend.

joyinhim said:

Hey naos, what happened to holo?

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I don't know. I noticed that he abruptly stopped posting too though. Maybe he's gone on holiday or something.

Godzchild said:

I find this "free will is an illusion" very interesting. Not saying I agree with it or not agree with it.

What I find interesting is that we have been predestined since before the foundations of the world. I've always thought that it was a matter of WHEN we came to christ rather than IF. Because it seems that our destiny was already decided by God.

But then I think...If God is an all knowing God and he knew who was going to CHOOSE him and who were not, that it's quite possible that we have free will in this choice. Our predestination comes from God foreknowing our decision.

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Yes, it can be a mind blower to consider that God chose us of His own volition, but at least ponder the possibility.

I know when I think on it I do this before the Lord in praise, adoration and thanksgiving...

naos said:

Yes, it can be a mind blower to consider that God chose us of His own volition, but at least ponder the possibility.

I know when I think on it I do this before the Lord in praise, adoration and thanksgiving...

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I would guess you are not robotic in your praise, adoration and thanksgiving. You choose to do this.

It is true that God chose us to be saved "in Christ" before the foundation of the world, but many will choose to reject him and walk the broad way of destruction (Matt. 7:14;2 Pet. 3:9).

Bottom Buzzer said:

Don't worry! Holo will be back from the wilderness during the weekend.

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I like the way you talk.

By the way, Why do you put such an eery picture? That scares me.

joyinhim said:

I like the way you talk.

By the way, Why do you put such an eery picture? That scares me.

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It is one of my charcoal drawings, and I have used it as a avatar for years in different forums. If you like you can see more of my drawings and paintings on my web-site: My Gallery

Bottom Buzzer said:

It is one of my charcoal drawings, and I have used it as a avatar for years in different forums. If you like you can see more of my drawings and paintings on my web-site: My Gallery

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Thank you.

Jim Woodell said:

I would guess you are not robotic in your praise, adoration and thanksgiving. You choose to do this.

It is true that God chose us to be saved "in Christ" before the foundation of the world, but many will choose to reject him and walk the broad way of destruction (Matt. 7:14;2 Pet. 3:9).

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Wow. What if it was all robotic, as you put it? Who are you to reply against the Maker?

That pride thing is a killer.

Charis