Can you fall from being saved?

[WhyAjani]

Let's take this situation for an example...

Let's say this man discovers Christ through a life of hardship. He's a very intelligent man who is often a skeptic. Well he finds Christ and dedicates his life to him for 10 years. He was saved. Until he comes across to someone to feed him lies about how there is no evidence for Christ. His skeptic nature kicks in and he walks away from Christ because of this evidence.

He was saved from the heart. It says once you are saved you are pre-destined and you cannot be taken away from him.

So if this gentlemen is a full blown athiest now, is he still secured in heaven?

"And let's say in another situation someone was saved and 10 years later they live a life of sin."

What will happen?

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

My view on this tends to be a bit different from some on this forum. I personally believed that once you are truly saved, that is it, you are saved. I have a family member who was 'saved' in a word of faith church. She spoke in tongues, got herself slain in the ol' Spirit when she could, so on and so forth. She is now living with her boyfriend, doesn't go to church anymore and 'religion' is no longer a part of her life. This perplexes some in my family. I just don't feel she ever became saved in the first place. I think she had a pseudo-salvation and never really understood true salvation and a true relationship with God. Sure, she lived a 'good' life by her definition, went to church, had all these signs and gifts from 'god' and she would have adamently told you then she was saved. That was her 'salvation' and not from God.

Having been hijacked into false beliefs and teachings, I think this is very common. If you are truly walking with God, you won't desert Him and He certainly will not desert you.

The analogy I always use is that you can go sit your little self in a henhouse all day. Cluck til your little heart is content, peck and scratch at the soil. Hey you can even consume some bugs if that is your heart's delight but that doesn't make you poultry. That's all superficial stuff. What matters is what is internal.

God bless.

 

[WhyAjani]

Word that's what I was thinking and you just really clearified it all.. thanks alot sister.

 

[Jim Woodell]

Let's take this situation for an example...

Let's say this man discovers Christ through a life of hardship. He's a very intelligent man who is often a skeptic. Well he finds Christ and dedicates his life to him for 10 years. He was saved. Until he comes across to someone to feed him lies about how there is no evidence for Christ. His skeptic nature kicks in and he walks away from Christ because of this evidence.

He was saved from the heart. It says once you are saved you are pre-destined and you cannot be taken away from him.

So if this gentlemen is a full blown athiest now, is he still secured in heaven?

"And let's say in another situation someone was saved and 10 years later they live a life of sin."

What will happen?

I submit to you the following scriptures to consider:
1. Luke 15 "Lost Sheep" "Lost Coin" "Lost Boy" "Older Brother" Considering the "lost sheep" Jesus said, "Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep." Then there is a lot of "rejoicing." Why??

2. James 5:19 This verse addresses "brothers." We are told if he "wanders from the truth, and is brought back, a soul has been saved from death.

3. 2 Peter 2:20-22 Here are some who have "escaped the pollutions of the world through Jesus Christ, but are again entangled therein." Because they are overcome "they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning."

Scripture does teach that a person can be saved and so sin as to lose their soul. God says, "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you - unless, of course, you fail the test." (2 Cor. 13:5)

 

[HolyFire X]

I can't give a personal opinion from my experiences. The Bible does say that "I will never leave you nor forsake you." but I don't know if you can leave Him.

I'll leave this answer in the hands of someone else.

 

[Jim Woodell]

I can't give a personal opinion from my experiences. The Bible does say that "I will never leave you nor forsake you." but I don't know if you can leave Him.

I'll leave this answer in the hands of someone else.

The lost sheep of Luke 15:1ff "wandered off." God does not forsake us, but we can forsake him.

 

[holo]

For me, it boils down to being a child of God, born again as we call it.
If there's a way to remove oneself from salvation, I guess it must be through actually know who Jesus is, and willingly reject his offer of salvation.

There was a time in my life when I rejected my father, but I was still his flesh and blood. I couldn't somehow fail or sin so badly as to become somebody else's son.
It's a good thing salvation doesn't depend on my works or intellect (or on me in general).

 

[Asaph]

For me, it boils down to being a child of God, born again as we call it.
If there's a way to remove oneself from salvation, I guess it must be through actually know who Jesus is, and willingly reject his offer of salvation.

There was a time in my life when I rejected my father, but I was still his flesh and blood. I couldn't somehow fail or sin so badly as to become somebody else's son.
It's a good thing salvation doesn't depend on my works or intellect (or on me in general).

If a person has saved themselves, then and only then, they are entirely free to unsave themselves.

Which is one and the same thing isn't it?

Asaph

 

[Stinker]

I submit to you the following scriptures to consider:
1. Luke 15 "Lost Sheep" "Lost Coin" "Lost Boy" "Older Brother" Considering the "lost sheep" Jesus said, "Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep." Then there is a lot of "rejoicing." Why??

2. James 5:19 This verse addresses "brothers." We are told if he "wanders from the truth, and is brought back, a soul has been saved from death.

3. 2 Peter 2:20-22 Here are some who have "escaped the pollutions of the world through Jesus Christ, but are again entangled therein." Because they are overcome "they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning."

Scripture does teach that a person can be saved and so sin as to lose their soul. God says, "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you - unless, of course, you fail the test." (2 Cor. 13:5)

Upon first glance James 5:19-20 would appear to be saying that a Christian that happens to 'stray' from the truth will result in the death of his/her soul. Further study reveals that James is using a verse from the Old Testament as emphasis. James is referring to a non-Christian being 'turned' to the truth will result in the saving of their soul from death. This is to encourage Christians not to stray and if they should, that it is important for them to be brought back.

2Pet.2 is clearly describing unconverted teachers.....'A dog returns to it's own vomit' and 'A sow after being washed, returns to wallowing in the mire.' (2Pet.2:22)

 

[SoulFly51]

Hebrews 6:4-6
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age,
6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
(NIV)


1 Corinthians 10:12
12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!
(NIV)


1 Timothy 3:6
6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.
(NIV)


Hebrews 4:11
11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.
(NIV)

 

[Jim Woodell]

Hebrews 6:4-6
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age,
6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
(NIV)


1 Corinthians 10:12
12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!
(NIV)


1 Timothy 3:6
6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.
(NIV)


Hebrews 4:11
11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.
(NIV)

Good!

 

[abednego]

Hebrews 6:4-6
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age,
6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
(NIV)


1 Corinthians 10:12
12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!
(NIV)


1 Timothy 3:6
6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.
(NIV)


Hebrews 4:11
11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.
(NIV)

Very Good Sir I agree with you. I would have used the KJV to prove that point but other than that you are right! The bible says that anyman taking hold of the Gospel plow and looking back is unfit for the kingdom of God!

 

[Stinker]

Hebrews 6:4-6
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age,
6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
(NIV)


1 Corinthians 10:12
12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!
(NIV)


1 Timothy 3:6
6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.
(NIV)


Hebrews 4:11
11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.
(NIV)

When one quotes (Heb.6:4-6) as a 'proof-text' that a saved person can be lost, they always fail to see that it back-fires on them because it says that; 'if they fall away, it is impossible for them to be brought back to repentance.'
I have yet to hear of anyone who supports the doctrine of Insecurity (as I once did) maintain that after one came to know the Lord, then backslide, that they could never again repent and come back to the Lord.

I do not think that (1Cor.10:12) is mocking us by falsely saying; "Let him that thinks he is in a saved state right now take heed lest he suddenly die and wind up in hell."

On (1Tim.3:6) it is saying that a new convert should not be given so much authority because he could become prideful and be tempted to persuade church members to follow him instead of the Lord.....same stumbling block that Lucifer tripped over when he persuaded 1/3 of the angels to follow him.

On (Heb.4:11) it is not describing a believing people. It describes the ancient Israelites as an unbelieving people. The reason that they consistently disobeyed (the Hebrew letter tells us) is because of unbelief.

 

[Jim Woodell]

When one quotes (Heb.6:4-6) as a 'proof-text' that a saved person can be lost, they always fail to see that it back-fires on them because it says that; 'if they fall away, it is impossible for them to be brought back to repentance.

This is not a "back-fire" it is serious business. God is clear in this passage, don't flirt with sin!! A person can reach a place in their lifes where they cannot be brought back to repentance, even though they were at one time in a saved relationship with Jesus.

I have yet to hear of anyone who supports the doctrine of Insecurity (as I once did) maintain that after one came to know the Lord, then backslide, that they could never again repent and come back to the Lord.

God will be the judge of those that are lost. Calling this a "doctrine of Insecurity" is to prejudice the reality of what God is saying. Check out Demas and his departure from God. A person who is saved can so turn their back upon God that they will be eternally lost, and can reach a state in this present life where their heart is so hard that they cannot be brought to repentance. I am at least one person who has taught "they could never again repent and come back to the Lord." Again, turning your back on God is serious business!

Some will say that a person who becomes a Christian and then "backslides" was never a Christian to start with. I also know some who think "once saved, always saved" that are very carnal.

I do not think that (1Cor.10:12) is mocking us by falsely saying; "Let him that thinks he is in a saved state right now take heed lest he suddenly die and wind up in hell."

It seems to me that you are dismissing this passage as if it is trivial. All of us had best take the Word of God serious.

On (1Tim.3:6) it is saying that a new convert should not be given so much authority because he could become prideful and be tempted to persuade church members to follow him instead of the Lord.....same stumbling block that Lucifer tripped over when he persuaded 1/3 of the angels to follow him.

What will happen to those that follow man instead of Christ. Isn't that what, at least part of, the seven woes of Matt. 25 was about. Where will Lucifer end up, in heaven or hell. Your example here proves the point you were trying to disprove. Notice that it is a "new convert" (a Christian) who can fall into this trap you illustrate.

On (Heb.4:11) it is not describing a believing people. It describes the ancient Israelites as an unbelieving people. The reason that they consistently disobeyed (the Hebrew letter tells us) is because of unbelief.

BUT his point is that we (Christians) can have "an evil heart of unbelief and so depart from God." He does use the Israelites to demonstrate this for us.

 

[aggie03]

It may also be hopeful to note that in Hebrews when it talks about someone who has fallen away it is referring to someone who has turned their back completely on God and the sacrifice that the Christ made on the cross. I do not believe this is referring necessarily to someone who is having "attendance problems" or some other issue that would typically be described as "backsliding". Hewbrews 6, as noted already, deals with a very serious, very sad condition.

 

[Mr.Peanut]

i believe in once saved always saved.

 

[RP1000]

The lost sheep of Luke 15:1ff "wandered off." God does not forsake us, but we can forsake him.

hhmmm Thats good

remember Jesus said many times .... "He who endures to the end will be saved"

 

[Jim Woodell]

i believe in once saved always saved.

What "I believe" does not necessairly make it so. Why did God tell us to "study?" (2 Tim. 2:15) He also mentions "rightly dividing the word of truth." Jesus said, "If you continue in my word you are my disciples in deed and you will know the truth and the truth will make you free." (John 8:31-32).

The Bible does not teach "once saved always saved," so what is your source for believing this??

 

[Stinker]

QUOTE=Stinker]When one quotes (Heb.6:4-6) as a 'proof-text' that a saved person can be lost, they always fail to see that it back-fires on them because it says that; 'if they fall away, it is impossible for them to be brought back to repentance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is not a "back-fire" it is serious business. God is clear in this passage, don't flirt with sin!! A person can reach a place in their lifes where they cannot be brought back to repentance, even though they were at one time in a saved relationship with Jesus. [Jim Woodell post #14]


"A person can 'reach a place' in their life where they cannot be brought 'back' to repentance."

Now the 'place' that the people described in Hebrews 6:4-6 had 'reached' is not described, nor the subject. What is described, and the focus of the subject, is their abandonment of what they had experienced when they were practicing Christians......

Hebrews 6:4-6
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age,
6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

 

[Leah]

My view on this tends to be a bit different from some on this forum. I personally believed that once you are truly saved, that is it, you are saved. I have a family member who was 'saved' in a word of faith church. She spoke in tongues, got herself slain in the ol' Spirit when she could, so on and so forth. She is now living with her boyfriend, doesn't go to church anymore and 'religion' is no longer a part of her life. This perplexes some in my family. I just don't feel she ever became saved in the first place. I think she had a pseudo-salvation and never really understood true salvation and a true relationship with God. Sure, she lived a 'good' life by her definition, went to church, had all these signs and gifts from 'god' and she would have adamently told you then she was saved. That was her 'salvation' and not from God.

Having been hijacked into false beliefs and teachings, I think this is very common. If you are truly walking with God, you won't desert Him and He certainly will not desert you.

The analogy I always use is that you can go sit your little self in a henhouse all day. Cluck til your little heart is content, peck and scratch at the soil. Hey you can even consume some bugs if that is your heart's delight but that doesn't make you poultry. That's all superficial stuff. What matters is what is internal.

God bless.

Tell it!