Can you control what you believe?

[elman]

TeddyKGB]In other words, I want to do for them more than I want to do for me.

No in other words you do not chose what you want but what someone else wants.

And I choose the one I want more?

[/QUOTE]
Perhaps at that time. Perhaps the next time it will be one of the other things you want most.

 

[TeddyKGB]

No in other words you do not chose what you want but what someone else wants.

But I do that because I want to help them or make them happy, right?

Perhaps at that time. Perhaps the next time it will be one of the other things you want most.

I can want only one thing most, right?

 

[elman]

But I do that because I want to help them or make them happy, right?

QUOTE]
Maybe or perhaps just because you see they have a need and you sympathize with them


At any one time in order for you to chose something, you must chose it over the other options. That is how making a choice works.

 

[TeddyKGB]

Maybe or perhaps just because you see they have a need and you sympathize with them

Because I want to?

At any one time in order for you to chose something, you must chose it over the other options. That is how making a choice works.

I get that. What we need to figure out is why we choose what we choose.

 

[elman]

[

QUOTE=TeddyKGB]Because I want to?

No you might not want to sympathize with them but you do it because it is the right thing to do.

I get that. What we need to figure out is why we choose what we choose.

[/QUOTE]
I don't need to figger that out. It does not matter much to me. And it is too illusive, a different reason each time and sometime just a whim.

 

[Matty1919]

I asked this question in the outreach section but a mod decieded to put their "mod hat" on so I stopped.

IMO psychlogically your characteristics (which will determine whether you accept Christ or not) are determined by the most important factor A: your enviroment and B: genetics right? We cannot control to whom we are born so we therefore can't control A nor B right? So then how can God be fair or just by really predetermining our fate?

EDIT: BTW I love this thing meant to represnt Atheists

. Thanks for the respect.

 

[JGL53]

...IMO psychologically your characteristics (which will determine whether you accept Christ or not) are determined by the most important factor A: your environment and B: genetics right? We cannot control to whom we are born so we therefore can't control A nor B right? So then how can God be fair or just by really predetermining our fate?...

This is one of the main ten or twelve problems I have always had in believing in the existence of a personal creator god (as opposed to pantheism or whatever).

E.g., if Billy Graham (or the present Pope) had not been wanted by their parents for some reason and were given to either Hindus (Vedantists) or Shiite Muslins as babies, to be raised in India or Iran, respectively? What are the chances either of them would have become Christians one day? Most likely they would have accepted the religion or philosophy of their adopted parents and adopted society. So whence fairness and justice? Or are those concepts important?

...BTW I love this thing meant to represent Atheists . Thanks for the respect....

Well, if they are saying that atheists are brainy and smart then, yeah, that seems respectful, even flattering. But if they are implying that atheists are "all head and no heart" - then maybe not so much either.

 

[Nahienga]

Can you control what you believe or do you think the very core of your beliefs are determined by outside/other factors?

No matter how much I wish I could, I can never control the world. =)

 

[Zakath]

...E.g., if Billy Graham (or the present Pope) had not been wanted by their parents for some reason and were given to either Hindus (Vedantists) or Shiite Muslins as babies, to be raised in India or Iran, respectively? What are the chances either of them would have become Christians one day? Most likely they would have accepted the religion or philosophy of their adopted parents and adopted society. So whence fairness and justice? Or are those concepts important?

Interesting questions... Humans seem to be genetically predisposed to adopt some sort of sprituality, but not any particular one. I would guess it's likely that a person who was extremely religious in one social group would be so in another. We see a little of that when evangelical Christians become evangelical atheists and try to covert others to their persuasion. Sometimes it gets a bit annoying...

Well, if they are saying that atheists are brainy and smart then, yeah, that seems respectful, even flattering. But if they are implying that atheists are "all head and no heart" - then maybe not so much either.

It means what you want it to mean. I take it as something neutral, myself.

 

[sjstudy]

Because I believe in the bible i believe that we can choose what we believe in. The Bible wants you to believe in it to be saved. So God wants you to believe in it to be saved. If believing is not in your control how can you be held accountable for not believing? Ofcourse, my opinion is presuppositional that the Bible is true. It's something for christians and all religous people to think about.

 

[Clarphimous]

You're referring to philosophical hedonism.

(States that any decision you make is due to the pursuit of pleasure.)

Psychological hedonism. Philosophical hedonism is a philosophy, like Epicureanism.

 

[Clarphimous]

Not too scary because we make choices all the time that is not going to produce the most pleasure for us and we know it.

You mustn't forget "minimize displeasure." A lot of the time we don't do stuff that could be very helpful to us in the end because of all the suffering it would cause getting there. And usually, the further off a pleasure is, the less real it seems.

 

[rstrats]

sjstudy,

re: "...I believe that we can choose what we believe..."

As I have asked others - with no responsive replies BTW - what is it that you do that allows you to say, "OK, at this moment I believe that ‘x’ does not exist, but I CHOOSE to believe that ‘x’ exists and now instantly at this new moment I do believe that ‘x’ exists ? How do you do it? How do you make the instantaneous transition from one state of belief to another?

 

[Clarphimous]

I think this thread would go a lot easier if we wrote the question in different words.

"Can we choose what we believe?"

can be better phrased as

"Is it possible to delude ourselves?"

And the answer is now plain and simple: yes.

I'm still curious of the methods mentioned on how to do this, though. So far I've heard listening selectively to what you want to believe, and submitting to authority. There's probably a lot of good ideas in Nineteen Eighty-Four, but I wouldn't know how to put those ideas into practice. So... would somebody who deals in the subject mind explaining their techniques?

*I just realized that the correct equivalent of choosing what to believe would be -intentional- delusion. Bah. Whatever, I don't care anymore.

 

[rstrats]

Clarphimous,

re: "I think this thread would go a lot easier if we wrote the question in different words."

"‘Can we choose what we believe?’ can be better phrased as ‘Is it possible to delude ourselves?’"

That would limit the belief to things that are contrary to fact. It would exclude those beliefs that are involved with reality.

 

[sjstudy]

sjstudy,

re: "...I believe that we can choose what we believe..."

As I have asked others - with no responsive replies BTW - what is it that you do that allows you to say, "OK, at this moment I believe that ‘x’ does not exist, but I CHOOSE to believe that ‘x’ exists and now instantly at this new moment I do believe that ‘x’ exists ? How do you do it? How do you make the instantaneous transition from one state of belief to another?

O0ooo . An outside factor has to influence you into believe. So it really isn't you who controls it. Because you cannot just change your beliefs instantly. I get it. Is that what your saying? If it is it makes sense. How could it be in my control if I require an outside factor and cant instantly change my beliefs on my own. Hmm

 

[sjstudy]

and i got a question to add to that. Can you blame someone for being gullible?

 

[Clarphimous]

Clarphimous,

re: "I think this thread would go a lot easier if we wrote the question in different words."

"‘Can we choose what we believe?’ can be better phrased as ‘Is it possible to delude ourselves?’"

That would limit the belief to things that are contrary to fact. It would exclude those beliefs that are involved with reality.

Something isn't necessarily false in order to be a delusion. I was thinking of deluding yourself as ignoring logical conclusions in order to believe something else. It's probably only a subset of ways to choose what to believe, but it would still show that you can choose, in a sense.

 

[rstrats]

sjstudy,

re: "Because you cannot just change your beliefs instantly. I get it. Is that what your saying?"

No, just the opposite. A belief change HAS to occur instantly.

 

[elman]

O0ooo . An outside factor has to influence you into believe. So it really isn't you who controls it. Because you cannot just change your beliefs instantly. I get it. Is that what your saying? If it is it makes sense. How could it be in my control if I require an outside factor and cant instantly change my beliefs on my own. Hmm

Can you chose the outside factor? Can you chose to read or not read, watch or not watch, go to a particular conference of not? Why would you think we have no control simply because we are subject to being influenced by outside factors? Do you have any control at all over how you spend your time?