Can you be a Christian and join the forces

[Ave Maria]

Yes you can and we must also remember that for those opposed to combat, there are non-combatant positions available in abundance.

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

[snip]
Luk 22:34 And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] shall not crow to-day before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.
[snip]
Luk 22:38 And they said, Lord, behold here are two swords. And he said to them, It is enough.

Just a brief note: two swords, not half a dozen, along with spears, shields and a ballista...

I would suggest that as Christians self defense is legitamate, but should not be a focus, arming to the teeth is not called for.

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

Despite my disagreements below I am giving Jim Reps for this post, overall it was very well done.

We just need to look at the WHOLE picture. God never commanded the governments to "spread the Gospels". God commanded to Christians to spread the Gospels. The Gospel is for "spiritual society" while the Governments are for "human society".

Without the protection of the human society, the world will never be at peace because sin will allow people who will do evil actions against human society.
The Bible teaches that we shall not "murder".
Military is not in anyway connected to "murder".

Just to be precise:
Killing in the legitamate pursuit of a just war is not murder.

The military is quite capable of committing murder and has done so many times.

The Christian is faced with the fact that the NT is silent on the specific question, does Christian responsibility to obey the God-ordained government include taking the life of others, possibly even fellow believers, simply because those individuals are soldiers of another nation? There is no “proof text” which settles that question.

I would suggest:

Micah 6:8
He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.​

If a military action is truely just then you pray for all those on the opposing side and do your best to bring the action to a quick and successful end.

If it is not, I suggest the gov't is in breach of its duties and we are no longer required to obey its dictates.

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

I agree with the protection bit but I have always stood by the idea that there are other ways to solve problems in the world than violence.

There are often much better ways of solving, or at least reducing them, than using violence but there are times and places where both the threat of force and the application of force are either the best or the only way to do it.

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

He will definitely be trained to kill and regardless of the scriptures involved the Holy Spirit has told me and a close friend that it is not God's desire for him to do this. We have told my friend this and while he "respects our opinions" it's not enough for him to change his mind.

I'm also deeply concerned because he has confided in me that the only reason he's doing this is because it's what he's always wanted to do and he feels like "giving up on the whole christian thing anyway".

What also upsets me is the fact that no one else in the church we go to seems to care one way or the other. People have told him to wait for God to give him an answer but he has given up and gone for it anyway.
[]
Any prayers or pointers gratefully received.

I don't see any contradiction between being Christian and being in the Armed Forces, however...

I am interested in your belief that the Holy Spirit has told you that this is not God's desire for him.

I find the combination of joining the military and "giving up on the whole christian thing" very disturbing.

I would suggest that it is more important to encourage him to stay in touch with the Church (i.e. God and fellow Christians) than to try to discourage him from this course. Once he is in the service you may want to write him regularly, don't try to convince him of anything, just be there, talk about your life and what is going on in your church to keep him connected.

You and he have my prayers.

Peace be with you,
Robert the Pilegrim

 

[rtiredsarg]

As a member of the military the service member is acting as an agent of the country they serve. The same thought goes if the person were a policeman.

Yes with the military there is the chance the person may have to go into battle and possibly take a life, yet they are doing so in the prosecution of the war. This is not murder.

Also as stated, there are numerous jobs that do not require combat that are essential to the military working, a person can work in these jobs as well.

Sarg

 

[Katydid]

You know, here is one thing I will state, and I haven't read all the posts so sorry if I miss something...

I personally KNOW some VERY devout and truley Christian men and women in the military. For the number of Christians in the military, don't you feel that the Holy Spirit would address at least a few of them if this was wrong.

It is NOONE's responsibility on this earth to judge whether my husband or any other service member is a Christain or not. If you feel like judging, then please remove the plank from your own eye before examining the speck in your brothers' and sisters'.

 

[Dmckay]

I have a very close christian friend who has just joined the marines - special forces.

I can't believe that he has done this despite what the bible says; not killing, loving your enemy etc.

He will definitely be trained to kill and regardless of the scriptures involved the Holy Spirit has told me and a close friend that it is not God's desire for him to do this. We have told my friend this and while he "respects our opinions" it's not enough for him to change his mind.

I'm also deeply concerned because he has confided in me that the only reason he's doing this is because it's what he's always wanted to do and he feels like "giving up on the whole christian thing anyway".

What also upsets me is the fact that no one else in the church we go to seems to care one way or the other. People have told him to wait for God to give him an answer but he has given up and gone for it anyway.

I don't see how someone is supposed to love their enemies while pointing a gun in their face.
Also, what about "Thou shalt not kill" does he not understand!?

It will absolutely break my heart to see him do this and I have no idea what else to do. I know that we have been given free will from God and at the end of the day I will have to accept whatever my friend does because it's not my decision.

Any prayers or pointers gratefully received.

You say that your friend is a Christian. Let me ask you a couple of questions. One of the few legitimate reasons for the government to exist is to protect its people. That requires a standing, trained military. If it is necessary for our country to fight a war, such as now, with the radical Islamic fascists like those who murdered over 3,000 Americans on 9/11, in whose hands would you rather those weapons of war be? A believer in Jesus Christ or anyone else who is trained to use that weapon?

I served in the Army Rangers (an elite Special Operations force) for 5 years. I got out of the service to train for the ministry with the intent of going back in as a Chaplain to minister to the Christian young men and women serving their country. Remember the words of Jesus, "Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his life for a friend." Many of those Christian young men and women will lay down their lives to keep you and your family alive and safe.

Another question. If you have problems in your home town with criminals who would you rather have keeping you safe. A Christian young man or woman who feel compelled to enter law enforcement, or, like has happened in L.A., drug dealers and gang members who have been made police officers to fill a quota? My son has a BA in Law Enforcement and is a dedicated Christian young man with very high moral standards. Every day he is placed in a position where he may be killed of have to kill. He has accepted the responsibility for that. I trust him with a gun in his hand more than anyone else I know.

Last question. Do you believe in the omnipotent, sovereignty of G-d? Don't you think that just maybe He might have had something to do with the development of your friends values and attitudes, and that He may just have a purpose for your friend in the military? Your friend has to answer to G-d for his decisions and actions in life, not to you. Maybe the other people in your church that don't share your concern and attitude toward his entering the service, just have a more mature and Biblical attitude that you do.

BTW, we are enjoined in Scripture not to commit murder. And Yet G-d commanded the armies of Israel upon entering the Promised land to kill every man, woman and child and to leave none alive. The passaage about turning the other cheek is referring to a back-handed slap, what was in its day considered an insult. We aren't to respond to insults, but we are told that a man who won't protect his family is worse than a heathan.

 

[butterflyinchrist]

I don't see any contradiction between being Christian and being in the Armed Forces, however...

I am interested in your belief that the Holy Spirit has told you that this is not God's desire for him.

I find the combination of joining the military and "giving up on the whole christian thing" very disturbing.

This is what I am most worried about. if he was joining the military and also very secure in his relationship with Jesus I don't think I would be as wary as I am now.

I would suggest that it is more important to encourage him to stay in touch with the Church (i.e. God and fellow Christians) than to try to discourage him from this course. Once he is in the service you may want to write him regularly, don't try to convince him of anything, just be there, talk about your life and what is going on in your church to keep him connected.

I completely agree. This is what I'm planning to do. I haven't badgered him about it and I don't intend to. I know it's his choice at the end of the day. I have only made my opinion and revelation known to him once and that was only when he asked my what i thought about it but I also showed him that i was saying it out of love.. At the end of the day I'm not going to stop loving him just because I don't agree with something he is doing. I think if everyone did that no one would have any friends!

Thanks

For the number of Christians in the military, don't you feel that the Holy Spirit would address at least a few of them if this was wrong.

Although I am not in total agreement with christian men and women being in the armed forces, what the Holy Spirit shared with me was not for them, it was for my friend. I cannot say what is definitely wrong or right for these other people and I'm not trying to, I'm actually just trying to get to the bottom of what is the right attitude to have about this.

It is NOONE's responsibility on this earth to judge whether my husband or any other service member is a Christain or not. If you feel like judging, then please remove the plank from your own eye before examining the speck in your brothers' and sisters'.

If you think that I'm judging anyone I am truly sorry. That is the last thing I am trying to do and I that is how I'm coming across I will pray and repent of it. It was not my intention to judge or put anyone down and the fact that that is what it looks like upsets me greatly.

Please accept my apology.
God bless

 

[butterflyinchrist]

One of the few legitimate reasons for the government to exist is to protect its people. That requires a standing, trained military. If it is necessary for our country to fight a war, such as now, with the radical Islamic fascists like those who murdered over 3,000 Americans on 9/11

I agree that the government is supposed to protect its people completely. I lost family in the twin towers on 9/11 but God gave me the most beautiful and profound revelation. That was that he loves those islamic fascists as much as he loves us and they thirst for forgiveness and grace just like every other human being on the planet. They need our prayers just as much as the families that have lost loved ones because of their actions.

in whose hands would you rather those weapons of war be? A believer in Jesus Christ or anyone else who is trained to use that weapon?

I don't think that they should be in the hands of anyone.

I served in the Army Rangers (an elite Special Operations force) for 5 years. I got out of the service to train for the ministry with the intent of going back in as a Chaplain to minister to the Christian young men and women serving their country. Remember the words of Jesus, "Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his life for a friend." Many of those Christian young men and women will lay down their lives to keep you and your family alive and safe.

And they have my appreciation, love, respect and prayers.

Another question. If you have problems in your home town with criminals who would you rather have keeping you safe. A Christian young man or woman who feel compelled to enter law enforcement, or, like has happened in L.A., drug dealers and gang members who have been made police officers to fill a quota? My son has a BA in Law Enforcement and is a dedicated Christian young man with very high moral standards. Every day he is placed in a position where he may be killed of have to kill. He has accepted the responsibility for that. I trust him with a gun in his hand more than anyone else I know.

Maybe I haven't made myeself clear. Everything else aside, the main reason why i started this thread is because my friend is giving up on his faith. I think that that combined with joining the military, being away from his church, friends, loved ones etc. could really be bad for him.

Last question. Do you believe in the omnipotent, sovereignty of G-d? Don't you think that just maybe He might have had something to do with the development of your friends values and attitudes, and that He may just have a purpose for your friend in the military? Your friend has to answer to G-d for his decisions and actions in life, not to you. Maybe the other people in your church that don't share your concern and attitude toward his entering the service, just have a more mature and Biblical attitude that you do.

Of course I believe. As I have stated before, my friend has not even considered whether or not it is what God wants him to do and if he had I wouldn't be so adamant. I am under no circumstances asking my friend to answer to me and as I have said i have only mady my feelings known to him once. I also felt that if I didn't share what I think the holy spirit shared with me I would be accountable for that. I have always told him that whatever he does I will support and love him and will never judge him for whatever decision he makes.

I sure the other people in my church are more mature in the faith than I am but they are not as close to him as I am. They have not found him on a bathroom floor with his wrists bleeding. They have not had to drive him to hospital to have his stomach pumped and he has not shared with them the inner struggles he is going through at the moment.

If he was tight with Jesus, I wouldn't be so upset. But at the moment he keeps trying to kill himself so forgive me if I'm a little hysterical.

BTW, we are enjoined in Scripture not to commit murder. And Yet G-d commanded the armies of Israel upon entering the Promised land to kill every man, woman and child and to leave none alive. The passaage about turning the other cheek is referring to a back-handed slap, what was in its day considered an insult. We aren't to respond to insults, but we are told that a man who won't protect his family is worse than a heathan.

We do not live in old testament times. What about people in countries around the world where they are not allowed to practice their faith. What about entire christian families under communist rule who knelt together before government officials to await their execution and prayed for their oppressors, well aware of the fact they were about to be murdered. Were the men in these families heathens too?

 

[White Horse]

That was that he loves those islamic fascists as much as he loves us and they thirst for forgiveness and grace just like every other human being on the planet. They need our prayers just as much as the families that have lost loved ones because of their actions.

No doubt about it. But if they're fixin' to murder someone, (self included) I have the responsibility to stop them, up to and including blowing their brains out. See the "my Lord told 'em to buy a sword post."

I don't think that they should be in the hands of anyone.

Well, you know what? One day it'll be like that. When our Lord is sitting on a throne in Jerusalem, then we won't have to worry about it. Until then, though, we are in an evil world, of which Satan is the prince, BTW and the bad guys are gonna be packin', so we better, too, or you won't have the freedom to get on here and debate your pie in the sky idealistic and unrealistic beliefs. That's not a slam, BTW, just an accurate obversation. One I'd share with my own children, or anyone else, for that matter.

I sure the other people in my church are more mature in the faith than I am but they are not as close to him as I am. They have not found him on a bathroom floor with his wrists bleeding. They have not had to drive him to hospital to have his stomach pumped and he has not shared with them the inner struggles he is going through at the moment.

I'd be waaaay careful about proclaiming yourself closer to our Lord than someone else. That's very dangerous territory, teetering on the same level as the religious who prayed that the "sinner" were more like him.

 

[butterflyinchrist]

I'd be waaaay careful about proclaiming yourself closer to our Lord than someone else. That's very dangerous territory, teetering on the same level as the religious man were more like him.

WHAT!? That's not what I meant at all, you might wanna read that again. I meant close to my friend...... Never would I ever say that I am closer to the lord than anyone else. Wow people are really misunderstanding me at the moment.

 

[White Horse]

WHAT!? That's not what I meant at all, you might wanna read that again. I meant close to my friend...... Never would I ever say that I am closer to the lord than anyone else. Wow people are really misunderstanding me at the moment.

I stand corrected. My most sincere apologies.

You can hit me on the head next time I see you.

Better yet, I'll just do it for you!

 

[butterflyinchrist]

I stand corrected. My most sincere apologies.

You can hit me on the head next time I see you.

Better yet, I'll just do it for you!

Hey no problem we all make mistakes.
Sorry if I over reacted! LOL.



God bless

 

[Dmckay]

We do not live in old testament times. What about people in countries around the world where they are not allowed to practice their faith. What about entire christian families under communist rule who knelt together before government officials to await their execution and prayed for their oppressors, well aware of the fact they were about to be murdered. Were the men in these families heathens too?

I agree, we don't live in Old Testament time. This was given as an example, that G-d is not in the business of loving and saving everyone. These people that we are fighting believe that they are glorifying their god by killing people who don't believe exactly as they do. They completely reject the idea of the deity of Christ, and resolutely believe that Christians that believe that Jesus is G-d have to be killed as an abomination in Allah's eyes. They kill their own children if they are corrupted by Christianity.

This is not just sin, it is demonic, evil at its worst. If you feel that G-d has given you a message that He has love for these people as a whole, then you need to do some serious study on the essence and attributes of G-d. You truly do not have a clear understanding of what Scripture teaches about the Trinity.

 

[butterflyinchrist]

That may be true but you still didn't answer my question.

 

[White Horse]

Hey no problem we all make mistakes.
Sorry if I over reacted! LOL.



God bless

No, no, sweetheart. You didn't overreact at all. I was out of line.

 

[Dmckay]

That may be true but you still didn't answer my question.

What question was that? Were these men heathen to? What men, The Christians praying as they died, because they had no other choice? Or the men doing the killing? Time to wake up. Therre are more people out there that would prefer to see you, me and every other Christian dead, then there are who will come to accept Christ because of your pacifistic willingness to be slaughtered.

I buried a whole village of men, women and children, tortured to death in Vietnam, by the NVA, because they had dared to accept food from Americans. Add being a Christian on top of being an American and you become one big target in many peoples eyes.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

It is fine IF one is lead by the Spirit to be a martyr in a given situation, a conscientious objector, a pacifist, holds a non-violent stance, rely on others to provide protection, plea for cease in violence or be a peace maker, etc. It is quite the other thing to take it upon oneself and declare that those that are called to serve in a different fashion and use only portions of scripture to back it up while ignoring others are somehow not following Christ or disobedient.

The centurion in Matthew 8/Luke 7, the centurion and soldier in Acts 10, and all the analogies/metaphors of being a soldier, armor of God, serving our Commander, etc. doesn't seem to reflect the same condemnation being held by a few personal opinions. Military, police, even boundaries as a citizen have their purpose and proper place. Do you think that Paul, while writing from prison spoke of brothers and sisters only being other prisoners? How about the guards that were exposed to his faith, do you think that some of them may have been among the brethren? The passage in Romans 13 states clearly that God is the one that appoints the authority and not someone that speaks out of possibly only good intentions.

I know it may be difficult to believe, but regardless of how kind someone reacts to someone, no matter how peaceful someone may be, no matter how loving and joyful a person can be, there are some that are not and even some that do really bad things. It is in love for justice, for protecting the innocent, for standing in what is right vs. what is wrong that some are called to serve in a different fashion and I simply don't see that condemned as others have portrayed it - don't see it based in sound doctrine.

If you are not called to serve in such a way, great and God will provide a means to protect you. But please do not take it upon yourself to ridicule or condemn that protection or declare with a blanket statement that it isn't Christian to function as such. As to the thread, it isn't a blanket statement to say that everyone 'should' serve in that fashion (possible need for harsh actions) either. Serve God as God calls you to serve.

Edit to Add: CAN someone be a Chistian and serve in the military? Yes.

 

[butterflyinchrist]

Ok based on the stuff people are posting on this thread I think I should make something clear.

- Any question I may ask is not meant to judge, make people feel uncomfortable, put down, belittle or anything along those lines. I am simply searching for the truth.
- I know it may seem that I am jumping to a lot of conclusions but I have been praying over pretty much every post submitted here and if something still doesn't sit right with me I will not pretend otherwise.
- At the end of the day, the only problem I really have is that things aren't matching up. There seems to be support for either argument and all I really want is to settle in my heart what God truly feels about this issue.