Can you be a Christian and a practising homosexual and still be saved?

[Girder of Loins]

Homosexual sex is a sin. To remove our cultural bias, let's ask the same question but replace the sin with the sin of murder, lying, stealing or idolatry. As a Christian, I occasionally catch myself lying. But I never plan to lie -- the lies just occasionally slip out and I hate it when it happens. I confess and forsake my sin and my sin is covered by Jesus's shed blood. I never wake up in the morning and plan to lie. I do not seek out the sin although it is obviously a part of my sinful nature. I am soundly saved by God's grace. I could say the exact same thing for my idolatry of self (pride), my idolatry of my family and marriage, my coveting, and on and on. All of these are sins I fight against regularly. I don't seek them out and when the Spirit convicts me of them, I thank God for saving a miserable wretch like me.

I didn't wake up one morning and think,"Hey, I think I'll choose to like guys and have a life full of guilt, shame, and depression! That sounds good!"

 

[Sageroots]

Before I say all of this, I too have struggled with this sin in the past. I hope this helps as much as possible.

No. You cannot be saved / a follower of Yeshua and be a practicing homosexual. It is a lot more straight forward than a lot of us seem to think. In Leviticus 18 God puts homosexuality among bestiality, sacrificing your kids to Molech, and incest. He says that these are among the things that cause the land and its inhabitants to become defiled. In 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 it mentions homosexuals as one of the groups of the unrighteous that will not inherit the kingdom of God. It also implies that you cannot be engaged in that sin and still be sanctified. In Romans 1:24-27 he connects homosexuality with impurity and the dishonoring of the body, exchanging the truth of God for a lie, etc. Being in a same sex relationship, regardless of sexual activity, would still be practicing homosexuality.

All of that said, there is a difference between struggling and rejecting sin and practicing it. As you said, it is very difficult to change yourself if you can at all. God will have to help you. He didn’t give you this burden and he doesn’t want you crushed by it. Praise routes the enemy. Also, if you are in an environment where this is always tugging on you, get out. Do all that you can to reject it and ask God to free you. I’m sure that he will.

 

[PaladinValer]

Evidentially there are a lot of people here who like to play God.

For their sakes, I hope their judgments are right...

 

[Explorer22]

And why do so many Christians disagree with this one? Why is it not straight forward? I struggle with this sin but I know deep down it is not a natural act. I have always known this since a child without anyone telling me otherwise? Is it morally wrong to be in a relationship with same sex if you are not having sex?

How do change your feelings? It is not easy done. It is like asking a heterosexual to change their attraction, try doing that..

Yes, you can be a Christian and a practising homosexual and still be saved! St. Paul's condemnation of homosexuals was merely his judgemental opinion, not the Word of God. The same is true of the anti-gay words in the Old Testament. It's time people realised the truth that the Bible is a mixture of inspiration from God and the personal opinions of the various Biblical writers. The entire Bible is not the literal Word of God.

There are many Biblical sayings which are extremely cruel and unjust, and yet they are said to be God's Word. For example, in the Old Testament it is written, "If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town.
They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then all the men of his town shall STONE HIM TO DEATH."

Since the above quotation could not possibly be the words of an All-Merciful, Compassionate, Forgiving and infinitely Loving God, it then follows that there is a strong possibility that the anti-homosexual statements in the Bible are also NOT God's Word! They are merely the harsh judgement of certain Biblical writers, just like the above quotation about the rebellious son.

God IS Love, and therefore where Love is, there God is also. If two gay men express love for each other in their thoughts, words and actions, then it follows that they are manifesting the Spirit of God who IS Love itself in all its infinite variety. And sex is one of many ways of expressing that Love.
Love between homosexuals CANNOT be a sin, for the simple reason that Love is not a sin. How can Love be a sin when God IS Love? Where Love is, there God is!

 

[mohmann]

I didn't wake up one morning and think,"Hey, I think I'll choose to like guys and have a life full of guilt, shame, and depression! That sounds good!"

And I didn't wake up one morning and choose to lust, covet, or idolize. They are each a part of my sinful nature. And they each reveal God's grace to me. The last thing I would want to do is deny that any of them are a sin and thus reduce my view of God's amazing grace.

 

[mohmann]

...

Since the above quotation could not possibly be the words of an All-Merciful, Compassionate, Forgiving and infinitely Loving God, it then follows that there is a strong possibility that the anti-homosexual statements in the Bible are also NOT God's Word! They are merely the harsh judgement of certain Biblical writers, just like the above quotation about the rebellious son.

!

Ahh, so the eternal God only actually said the parts that our wicked hearts agree with through the lens of our 21st century westernized ideals. That is convenient hermeneutic. Do you approach any other legal writings that way? Taking the parts you agree with and leaving the rest? I'm sorry judge but that part of the tax code could not be true so I decided I don't need to follow it.

The rebellious son punishment was a real law from God for Israel. Rebellious acts by children are still sinful -- that hasn't changed. Homosexual acts are a sin for Israel and all people for all time -- that hasn't changed. Picking and choosing from scripture is attempting to make yourself God which is idolatry and is also a sin -- that hasn't changed. Just as the serpent deceived Eve by making her question what God actually said.

What also hasn't changed is that Jesus Christ the lamb of God came to the earth to live a perfect life, bleed and die for the forgiveness of since for all who would repent and believe in Him. He rose from the dead on the third day according to the scriptures and is right now seated at the right hand of the father.

 

[mandelduke]

We all struggle with sin that is why Jesus had to die for us.

 

[Catherineanne]

Before I say all of this, I too have struggled with this sin in the past. I hope this helps as much as possible.

No. You cannot be saved / a follower of Yeshua and be a practicing homosexual.

How immensely uncharitable.

I always find it helpful to swap the wording of posts such as this, and substitute one of my own possible besetting sins, to find out how it sounds when addressed to me (and incidentally losing the ersatz name). So, here goes:

Before I say all of this, I too have struggled with this sin in the past. I hope this helps as much as possible.

No. You cannot be saved / a follower of the Lord and eat too many doughnuts at a time.

I am to forgive my brother seventy times seven, but the Lord will forgive me anything except this? The unforgivable sin is not actually blasphemy against the Holy Spirit at all, but eating doughnuts (substitute besetting sin of choice here).

I have to say, this does not sound right to me; it is not at all consistent with the Gospel of Christ.

 

[Sageroots]

How immensely uncharitable.

I always find it helpful to swap the wording of posts such as this, and substitute one of my own possible besetting sins, to find out how it sounds when addressed to me (and incidentally losing the ersatz name). So, here goes:

Before I say all of this, I too have struggled with this sin in the past. I hope this helps as much as possible.

No. You cannot be saved / a follower of the Lord and eat too many doughnuts at a time.

I am to forgive my brother seventy times seven, but the Lord will forgive me anything except this? The unforgivable sin is not actually blasphemy against the Holy Spirit at all, but eating doughnuts (substitute besetting sin of choice here).

I have to say, this does not sound right to me; it is not at all consistent with the Gospel of Christ.

I said you cannot be a practicing homosexual and still be saved. You can be forgiven of alot of things should you repent of your sin and turn from it. The difference between being a practicing homosexual and struggling with homosexuality/repenting is that, in the former, you are not repentant and are still engaging in homosexuality. You have not turned from it. Being repentant means that you know that it's wrong,reject it,and ask for forgiveness.When the woman caught in adultery was left alone with Yeshua he didn't just tell her to go home or say that he forgave her, he told her to go and sin no more. Obviously repentance is pretty important. There is nowhere in the bible that says you eating too many donuts defiles the land or is detestable. Like it or don't that is what the bible says. At least if you are to substitute one sin for another use one that God says is abhorrent to him.

On an off note, why did you change Yeshua to the Lord?

 

[Sageroots]

Yes, you can be a Christian and a practising homosexual and still be saved! St. Paul's condemnation of homosexuals was merely his judgemental opinion, not the Word of God. The same is true of the anti-gay words in the Old Testament. It's time people realised the truth that the Bible is a mixture of inspiration from God and the personal opinions of the various Biblical writers. The entire Bible is not the literal Word of God.

There are many Biblical sayings which are extremely cruel and unjust, and yet they are said to be God's Word. For example, in the Old Testament it is written, "If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town.
They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then all the men of his town shall STONE HIM TO DEATH."

As someone mentioned before it is dangerous to write parts of the bible off as unjust, as if we can judge a perfect God for what he says and decide whether or not it’s correct. As God is All-Merciful, etc. he sent his son to die and redeem us and fulfill Torah and make it so that we are free from the things that are a result of the law of sin and death. He did not change what he said he is an abomination or what he says defiles the land.

Since the above quotation could not possibly be the words of an All-Merciful, Compassionate, Forgiving and infinitely Loving God, it then follows that there is a strong possibility that the anti-homosexual statements in the Bible are also NOT God's Word! They are merely the harsh judgement of certain Biblical writers, just like the above quotation about the rebellious son.

If your logic is to be followed there isn’t anything in the bible other than the Psalms and Proverbs and other non instructional books that can be the Word of God. Basically you are saying that God did not speak to Moses a lot of the time and that whatever content we deem “harsh judgment” cannot be of God. So…pretty much anything solidly corrective. This ,to me, sounds like a mindset that leads you down the broad road.

God IS Love, and therefore where Love is, there God is also. If two gay men express love for each other in their thoughts, words and actions, then it follows that they are manifesting the Spirit of God who IS Love itself in all its infinite variety. And sex is one of many ways of expressing that Love.
Love between homosexuals CANNOT be a sin, for the simple reason that Love is not a sin. How can Love be a sin when God IS Love? Where Love is, there God is!

I usually try to avoid comparing one sin to another but if we, once again, follow your logic two people in an adulterous relationship who are expressing love for one another are manifesting the spirit of God too so adultery cannot be wrong either. You have to let God (who is love) define for you what love is.

You seem to have a problem with the word in general (you don't seem to really believe that it is a valid source of instruction) and I’d advise you consider that upon which your faith is built. We don’t get to pick and choose what parts of the bible are God’s word on the basis that whatever doesn’t make us feel warm and fuzzy inside or requires us to change can’t be what he said. He is very clear on this matter and he says he doesn’t like it. You feeling a certain way does not change what is.

 

[mohmann]

Right. So that means that at any given point in time there are sins you haven't (yet) recognised as such.

Ok, I think I get your point. Are you saying that the thief on the cross could have been a practicing homosexual, heard the words of Christ and been saved, then died and went to paradise with The Lord. And after being saved he could have had lustful thoughts towards another man but he had not been told homosexuality was a sin yet and the Spirit had not convicted him of it yet. So in the end he could have been a practicing homosexual who was saved without ever repenting of his homosexual thoughts and acts.

That sure seems possible to me but I'm not sure how practical it is. Of course with churches across the country mangling God's word to make homosexuality acceptable, there probably could be Christians who are saved but are being wrongfully led by their pastors to believe their sin is ok -- and thus they never repent. Which is why it is important for us to speak the truth in season and out of season -- especially to those shepherds who are leading their flock astray.

 

[revhewett]

Ok, I think I get your point. Are you saying that the thief on the cross could have been a practicing homosexual, heard the words of Christ and been saved, then died and went to paradise with The Lord. And after being saved he could have had lustful thoughts towards another man but he had not been told homosexuality was a sin yet and the Spirit had not convicted him of it yet. So in the end he could have been a practicing homosexual who was saved without ever repenting of his homosexual thoughts and acts.

That sure seems possible to me but I'm not sure how practical it is. Of course with churches across the country mangling God's word to make homosexuality acceptable, there probably could be Christians who are saved but are being wrongfully led by their pastors to believe their sin is ok -- and thus they never repent. Which is why it is important for us to speak the truth in season and out of season -- especially to those shepherds who are leading their flock astray.

Its not very practical and that's because it can't be true. In studying doctrines, you learn of the two different kinds of revelation. Revelation is simply saying how God communicates.

There is general revelation and special (or specific) revelation. Concerning any life of sin (that of a murderer, liar, or homosexual) God communicates through His word that those things are wrong. That is a special/specific revelation of those issues. General revelation, however, is considered to be things such as the natural cause and affect of said sins. For example, it is general knowledge that lying is wrong. Why? Because it hurts peoples feelings. With homosexuality, if you believe in creation, then creation itself says homosexuality is a lifestyle that shouldn't be lived because it is not doing what the genders were created for. General revelation IS enough to send people to Hell. Message me for information as to why if you'd like.

All that and the Bible ONLY gives example of a marriage relationship being man and woman. Read all of the scripture revolving around Christ being the husband and His church (believers) being the bride. No example can be given about a homosexual relationship because, going back to why we were created, living that life style is in vain of a way we are to glorify God (through multiplying - which cannot happen in same sex relationships). Also, sense relationship between man and woman is the only condoned example of how creation should continue, same sex marriage is not recognized. If same sex marriage is not recognized in scripture and you are a practicing homosexual, then you are living in your sin which goes against the meaning of being repentant.

So by deductive and inductive reasoning, being a practicing and living homosexual means you cannot be saved. It isn't to say a person won't struggle with the attraction. I've had meetings with people who wondered the same thing for their sake. They thought the attraction was a sin. However, it is no more sinning than a repentant serial killer being tempted or a liar wanting an easy way out...

 

[Dorcas01]

Luke 23:40 But the other rebuked him,saying,"Do you not fear God,since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?41 And we indeed justly,for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds;but this man has done nothing wrong."It is obvious that the criminal acknowledged that he was a sinner and repented of his sins immediately.That gave him the courage to tell Jesus that He should remember him in His kingdom.It is certain that no sinner shall inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[revhewett]

Luke 23:40 But the other rebuked him,saying,"Do you not fear God,since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?41 And we indeed justly,for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds;but this man has done nothing wrong."It is obvious that the criminal acknowledged that he was a sinner and repented of his sins immediately.That gave him the courage to tell Jesus that He should remember him in His kingdom.It is certain that no sinner shall inherit the kingdom of God.

But we never stop sinning... Becoming a Christian doesn't mean a complete halt of sinning. It allows us to see the hope past our depraved lives. Being sanctified is a process that we are always going through as Christians but messing up and committing a sin doesn't mean we never repented in the first place - it means we are mere humans that have a history of messing things up.

That said, I will enter heaven and I am a sinner. The only one that wasn't was Jesus. So, sinners will enter heaven because that's who Jesus died for... Maybe its semantics.

 

[Dorcas01]

Nobody is perfect as far as we are still in this flesh.So there is need for regular conversion.But a sinner who dies a sinner has no place in Heaven.Heaven is a holy place IT does not entertain any kind of uncleanliness.IT'S JUST BY GRACE.

 

[revhewett]

Nobody is perfect as far as we are still in this flesh.So there is need for regular conversion.But a sinner who dies a sinner has no place in Heaven.Heaven is a holy place IT does not entertain any kind of uncleanliness.IT'S JUST BY GRACE.

Well then it's semantics. I'm going to die a sinner. I will just die a redeemed sinner.

 

[Rubiks]

the idea of a "practicing homosexual" implies one "doing it" lol without repentance. If you mean that, then no, they cannot be saved.

However if a christian merely has same-sex attractions, but does not act on those desires, they can be saved. Being tempted is not a sin. Jesus was tempted

 

[Joykins]

So by "practicing homosexual" you mean "engaged in homosexual relations at the time of death"?

 

[Joykins]

I said you cannot be a practicing homosexual and still be saved. You can be forgiven of alot of things should you repent of your sin and turn from it. The difference between being a practicing homosexual and struggling with homosexuality/repenting is that, in the former, you are not repentant and are still engaging in homosexuality. You have not turned from it. Being repentant means that you know that it's wrong,reject it,and ask for forgiveness.When the woman caught in adultery was left alone with Yeshua he didn't just tell her to go home or say that he forgave her, he told her to go and sin no more. Obviously repentance is pretty important. There is nowhere in the bible that says you eating too many donuts defiles the land or is detestable. Like it or don't that is what the bible says. At least if you are to substitute one sin for another use one that God says is abhorrent to him.

The problem I have with this viewpoint is that it makes an occasional lapse in terms sinful sexual relations incidental and forgivable--something, like lying or overeating or stealing office supplies from work--that just happens occasionally and perhaps less and less occasionally as you grow spiritually--and can be forgiven as it occurs. With the result that it makes it seem better to be occasionally promiscuous than actually engaging in a monogamous relationship and forming family bonds with a partner you can love and connect with sexually and romantically. The latter seems better to me on a moral and social level than every now and then having a one night stand and then praying it away. I also believe God will save everyone who calls upon his name--there are plenty of "practicing" divorced and remarried heterosexuals who expect God to save them and their "lifestyle" may be considered just as transgressive of the ideal.

 

[Sageroots]

The problem I have with this viewpoint is that it makes an occasional lapse in terms sinful sexual relations incidental and forgivable--something, like lying or overeating or stealing office supplies from work--that just happens occasionally and perhaps less and less occasionally as you grow spiritually--and can be forgiven as it occurs. With the result that it makes it seem better to be occasionally promiscuous than actually engaging in a monogamous relationship and forming family bonds with a partner you can love and connect with sexually and romantically.

I'm not sure you're understanding what I said. Where in anything that I said did you get that occasional fornication is OK? Nothing that I said promotes the "sin now and say sorry for it later" message. What in "knowing it's wrong, rejecting it, and asking God for forgiveness" says to you "Fornicate occasionally but ask for forgiveness afterwards?". In the post you quoted I clearly made the distinction between sexual sin "which God says defiles the land" and stuff like "eating too many donuts".

The latter seems better to me on a moral and social level than every now and then having a one night stand and then praying it away.

None of that matters to this question. The original poster wants to know if you can be a practicing homosexual (her words,not mine) and still be saved at the same time and the answer,biblically, is no.

I also believe God will save everyone who calls upon his name-

According to Matthew 7:21-23 lots of people will call on his name and lots of people will also be told to depart because he does not know them as they practice lawlessness.

-there are plenty of "practicing" divorced and remarried heterosexuals who expect God to save them and their "lifestyle" may be considered just as transgressive of the ideal.

Just because someone else may be living a sinful life doesn't mean that you are free to live in sin too. When we all stand before God on the judgement day somebody else's sin or their expectations as far as whether or not God will save them are completely irrelevant to your going to Heaven or not. So what if divorced and remarried couples are sinning. That is a debate for another post. It still doesn't change what God says about homosexuality which is the sin in question in this post.

This may come off a lot sharper than I mean it to but did you even read my post or any of the rest of them? Did you mean to reply to me? Are you merely agreeing with me in the beginning? It sounds more like your problem isn't really with my viewpoint as far as sexual sin goes (if I'm not mistaken we seem to agree) as much as with my conclusions as far as homosexuality being wrong.