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Can we sin in Heaven?

Joseph G

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All the Scripture that I've ever read would say no. Except one:

Matthew 12:31-32 ESV

"Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."

"The age to come."

The Church Age? The 1000 year reign of Christ? - either which will have an end - thus removing the possibility for good.

Or in eternal glory, our Heavenly home? Thus ever in danger.

I would think that as we are presented "blameless before His throne with great joy" that we are finally perfect and incapable of ever falling again. Not to mention that the tempter will be nowhere in sight anyway.

Thoughts?
 

Aaron112

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Just like the infamous comma (or missing comma);

in the life to come, no one will be ever forgiven of the sins they were not forgiven of before they died.

Not any idea at all that anyone will be able to sin.
 
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Matt5

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Yes, but ... we're not going to heaven. We're going to the kingdom of heaven, and that is on Earth. People who do evil and sin will be weeded out first.

The Parable of the Weeds Explained

Matthew 13:40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.
Matthew 13:41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.
Matthew 13:42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.
 
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David Lamb

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Yes, but ... we're not going to heaven. We're going to the kingdom of heaven, and that is on Earth. People who do evil and sin will be weeded out first.
Yet Jesus said to His disciples before His crucifixion, resurrection and return to heaven:

“"Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. "In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.” (Joh 14:1-3 NKJV)

Where is Jesus now? In heaven. And He promises that all who believe in Him will be there with Him.
 
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Joseph G

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Yet Jesus said to His disciples before His crucifixion, resurrection and return to heaven:

“"Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. "In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.” (Joh 14:1-3 NKJV)

Where is Jesus now? In heaven. And He promises that all who believe in Him will be there with Him.
I appreciate the clarification, folks. I think anyone well-studied in Scripture knows what "in Heaven" and "our Heavenly Home" means.

So how about my question? Since we'll be forever in His presence (how's that?), can we sin?

I believe not myself - with a ton of supporting Scripture.

So I'm asking how we reconcile this particular Scripture with the rest?

Thanks and God bless!
 
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Joseph G

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English grammar. There's no contradiction unless it is mis-understood because English is so poor.
Hmm... well He sure used English to save me. And countless others in the history of the language. Nothing to sneeze at, friend...

So do you have an answer in another language then?

We know all Scripture reconciles because Jesus says so, but does He not share how so when it pleases Him, after we've stood on His Word through sheer faith?

Personally, I've found that He delights to do so sometimes through others, thus my post!

John 16:12-15 NIV

12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”
 
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Aaron112

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So do you have an answer in another language then?
In any language, no matter.
When the Father Reveals His Word, As He Did Simon bar Jona, and as He Does Little Children, it is known perfectlly and gently and simply.

Try this - state the seeming paradox (quote) you see, two or three ways .
 
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Joseph G

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In any language, no matter.
When the Father Reveals His Word, As He Did Simon bar Jona, and as He Does Little Children, it is known perfectlly and gently and simply.

Try this - state the seeming paradox (quote) you see, two or three ways .
Huh?
 
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Aaron112

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Matthew 12:31-32 ESV

"Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit

will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."
Sins committed on earth that are not forgiven

are not/ will not be/ forgiven

1) in this age.
2) in the age to come.

Nothing here (in English) refers to sins committed in the age to come;
Only that sins that were committed in this age and not forgiven in this age will also not
be forgiven in the age to come. The quilt/ punishment/ judgment remains and cannot be undone.

This combats, for one example, a very common heresy that deceitfully with other teachings opposed to the Bible seeks to trick people today into thinking they do not have to repent or be forgiven now, today - that even if they die, that somehow their sinfulness will be taken care of , as it were, after death or maybe "in the age to come". This opens an oceanliner fleet full of worms, and cannot be addressed on this forum.
 
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Joseph G

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Sins committed on earth that are not forgiven

are not/ will not be/ forgiven

1) in this age.
2) in the age to come.

Nothing here (in English) refers to sins committed in the age to come;
Only that sins that were committed in this age and not forgiven in this age will also not
be forgiven in the age to come. The quilt/ punishment/ judgment remains and cannot be undone.

This combats, for one example, a very common heresy that deceitfully with other teachings opposed to the Bible seeks to trick people today into thinking they do not have to repent or be forgiven now, today - that even if they die, that somehow their sinfulness will be taken care of , as it were, after death or maybe "in the age to come". This opens an oceanliner fleet full of worms, and cannot be addressed on this forum.
Agreed. Thanks.
 
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Diamond72

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Thoughts?
I do not think we ever lose our free will. We just love God enough so that we do not want to sin. As the pastor says: I can sin all I want to, I just don't want to. John Wesley teaches on holiness and sanctification before God.
 
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Semper-Fi

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The living Christ is coming as “King of kings and Lord of lords” (Revelation 19:11-21),
to put down the rebellion of warring nations (Revelation 17:14), and establish God’s
world-ruling government over all nations (Daniel 2:44; 7:9, 13-14, 18, 22, 27; Isaiah 9:7).
A world-ruling administration that will govern the nations upon earth. (Psalms 67:4).

He pictured Himself as the young nobleman going away (to heaven) to be coronated,
and to return to Earth (Luke 19:12-27). He will then be on the Earth—Zechariah 14:3-4,
1 Thessalonians 4:16. “If I go and prepare a place [position, office, habitation] for you,
I will come again, and receive you unto myself, that where I am, there ye may be also”

In vision, John saw the angels praising Christ at His coming to rule this Earth. They said,
“We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come;
because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned” (Revelation 11:17)

Christ ascended to heaven in clouds, so He shall return to Earth in clouds
(Acts 1:9-11; Matthew 24:30). Just as He is returning (1Thes 4:14-17),

The dead in Christ—(Romans 8:11, 14), will rise in a gigantic resurrection,
made immortal—including all the prophets of old (Luke 13:28). Those who
have the Spirit of God, then living, shall be instantaneously changed from
mortal to immortal (1?Corinthians 15:50-54).

Together with those resurrected, shall rise to meet the descending glorified
Christ (1 Thessalonians 4:17) in the clouds in the air. They shall be with Him,
where He is, forever (John 14:3).

They shall—with Him—come down out of the clouds, and stand with Him
that very same day, on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4-5).
-

The seventh angel sounds-Kingdoms of this current world become Christs (Rev 11:15)
-Will commit thy government into his hand, established with judgement and justice.
a father to [the inhabitants] of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah (Isaiah 22:21)

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of
David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice
from henceforth even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. (Isaiah 9:7)

Apostle John, in vision, saw a preview of the beginning of that rule and world government
“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them…and
they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years” (Revelation 20:4).(Isaiah 11:2-4)

-
Jesus Christ is the firstborn of many brethren (Romans 8:29; Colossians 1:18)
who shall be born of God by a “resurrection” (John 5:25-29; 6:39, 40, 44).

Jesus said: “And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will
I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron…” (Rev 2:26-27).
And again, “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne [on this Earth]”
(Revelation 3:21; Luke 1:32-33). And, “…we shall reign on the earth” (Revelation 5:10).

-A Kingdom appointed, made ruler over some cities.

And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;(Luke 22:29)
Some resurrected saints will rule over 10 cities, some over five (Luke 19:17-19)

-the meek shall inherit the earth

“But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the
[Eternal] shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted
above the hills; and people shall flow unto it” (Micah 4:1).
 
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Aaron112

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either in this age or in the age to come."
footnote
If someone gets a legal bill for three million dollars,
and it is not paid in this lifetime, and no one agrees to pay it in their lifetime nor make a contract to do so,
then it will not be paid forever. Neither in this lifetime, nor in the age to come.

Note you cannot get a legal bill in the age to come.
Nor can an unpaid bill be paid off in theage to come, not even forever.
 
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Aaron112

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I do not think we ever lose our free will. We just love God enough so that we do not want to sin. As the pastor says: I can sin all I want to, I just don't want to. John Wesley teaches on holiness and sanctification before God.
Did you see anyone in this lifetime in the last five years who undoubtedly loves God with all of their heart and all of their soul and all of their mind; totally devoted to Him ? (or so you thought/think?)

When they chose to sin, can that sin be forgiven ?
 
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Diamond72

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Did you see anyone in this lifetime in the last five years who undoubtedly loves God with all of their heart and all of their soul and all of their mind; totally devoted to Him ?
I know lots of people that are totally devoted to God. But we can only judge ourselves. God does not give us the ability to judge others.
When they chose to sin, can that sin be forgiven ?
You reap what you sow but sin can be forgiven.

  • 1 John 1:9: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
  • Matthew 6:14-15: "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if you forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."
  • Luke 5:20: "When Jesus saw their faith, he said, 'Friend, your sins are forgiven.'"
 
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Aaron112

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I know lots of people that are totally devoted to God. But we can only judge ourselves. God does not give us the ability to judge others.
Can't get clear with this .
Rather, as written and verified in Scripture,
We (assemblies, appointed ones) are to judge those within the assembly. Those outside, God judges.
 
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Diamond72

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Rather, as written and verified in Scripture,
We (assemblies, appointed ones) are to judge those within the assembly. Those outside, God judges.
What is your understanding of
  • Matthew 7:1-2: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
 
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