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There shouldn't even be a question on Grape Gatorade. It's obviously what they were drinking at the Last Supper, and what all instances of oivos refer to in the ancient corpus of Greek literature.
It's pretty clear they were drinking from the fruit of the vine.
Ya know.... you have to really feel sorry for all those millions of people in the far northern regions of the earth where they don't produce grapes. I guess they just don't get to be Christians.
As many of them who desire to come and be baptized.Who is "ours"? That doesn't sound like it covers too much of the world.
That's about what I figured.
I realize this was said in jest, but I have thought about it because of experiences with Mormons who use water. I think the answer is yes. Whether it should is a different matter. I think in cases of nesseciaty, it is permissible to substitute other substances for the elements. It's not the intrinsic nature of the elements that are salvific, but rather the promise attached to them. Now like I said, substitution should only be used for reasons of necessity. For instance, Jesus used bread and wine. However, while they did have significance in Jewish practice, they were also something that was readily available. Let's say you have somebody who is an alcoholic, and not able to take in wheat for some medical reason. Are they then banned from communion? But, if necessity does require a substitution, then it should be done in a dignified manner, and not focused upon.If so can hard water be used?
I realize this was said in jest, but I have thought about it because of experiences with Mormons who use water. I think the answer is yes. Whether it should is a different matter. I think in cases of nesseciaty, it is permissible to substitute other substances for the elements. It's not the intrinsic nature of the elements that are salvific, but rather the promise attached to them. Now like I said, substitution should only be used for reasons of necessity. For instance, Jesus used bread and wine. However, while they did have significance in Jewish practice, they were also something that was readily available. Let's say you have somebody who is an alcoholic, and not able to take in wheat for some medical reason. Are they then banned from communion? But, if necessity does require a substitution, then it should be done in a dignified manner, and not focused upon.
I didn't say I "knew" anything, but just figured that exclusive application might be what you meant. You have helped me see I was probably right.Then why did you ask already knowing the answer?
I didn't say I "knew" anything, but just figured that exclusive application might be what you meant. You have helped me see I was probably right.
"Ours", to me, would be Christ's inclusive and universal church... whether they ever even heard of the name of the building I might meet in, or not.
I didn't say I "knew" anything, but just figured that exclusive application might be what you meant. You have helped me see I was probably right.
"Ours", to me, would be Christ's inclusive and universal church... whether they ever even heard of the name of the building I might meet in, or not.
I guess that would raise the question of whether you could use beverages made from the fermentation of grains or potatoes, whatever was traditional in that particular geographic regiion. Then it raises further questions such as what symbolism could be found is using single malt as opposed to a blend, pure vodka or spiced? I don't know enough about saki to pose any questions regarding its options.Ya know.... you have to really feel sorry for all those millions of people in the far northern regions of the earth where they don't produce grapes. I guess they just don't get to be Christians.
I may be wrong but I suspect that Latter Day Saints don't use water out of necessity so much as out of a theological error about diet and alcohol.I realize this was said in jest, but I have thought about it because of experiences with Mormons who use water. I think the answer is yes. Whether it should is a different matter. I think in cases of necessity, it is permissible to substitute other substances for the elements. It's not the intrinsic nature of the elements that are salvific, but rather the promise attached to them. Now like I said, substitution should only be used for reasons of necessity. For instance, Jesus used bread and wine. However, while they did have significance in Jewish practice, they were also something that was readily available. Let's say you have somebody who is an alcoholic, and not able to take in wheat for some medical reason. Are they then banned from communion? But, if necessity does require a substitution, then it should be done in a dignified manner, and not focused upon.
I am not getting this importance of wine specifically having to be used. So North Korean christians rotting in prison are just out of luck for doing communion since they cannot have wine? This restriction of wine and only wine for the ceremony is superficial considering the importance of it.
It's not superficial when that is what Christ used.I am not getting this importance of wine specifically having to be used. So North Korean christians rotting in prison are just out of luck for doing communion since they cannot have wine? This restriction of wine and only wine for the ceremony is superficial considering the importance of it.
That's right.I am not getting this importance of wine specifically having to be used. So North Korean christians rotting in prison are just out of luck for doing communion since they cannot have wine?
Not just everything in our religion can be set aside when it's inconvenient to do it the right way. Besides, you're barking up the wrong theological tree.This restriction of wine and only wine for the ceremony is superficial considering the importance of it.
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