Can there be such a thing as a "toxic relationship" for a Christian?

[LuckyCharm]

Hi all,


I've been thinking about something lately, and I wanted to get some opinions from fellow Christians...


Much is made in modern psychology about "toxic" or dysfunctional relationships. Could this term ever be applied to a relationship with a Christian? Shouldn't agape love, the fruits of the Spirit, etc. be able to overcome any negativity or destructiveness in a relationship?


Looking forward to your comments,


~~Cheryl

 

[ZiSunka]

God can overcome those things, but mere humans cannot change each other's psyches, no matter how much they love each other. It's the story of beauty and the beast--a woman loves a man enough to change him from a monster into a charming prince.

I've seen some people get really hurt trying to do that. Only God can change a person, only a relationship with Christ can make a person new.

One woman in my old apartment building tried to love a friend into mental health. He was toxic in the sense you use. He had very violent tendencies, and he beat her frequently. Once I heard her screaming, "Please don't kill me! Please don't kill me! Put the knife down! Don't kill me!"

The police came and took him away, but immediately, he came back and pleaded for forgiveness. Lovely person that she was, she forgave him and let him back into her life. She really loved her friend and thought that with agape love, she could change him. He told her that he really wanted to change. ( l lived downstairs from her and could hear every word he said.)

He killed her about three months later.

Human love, even agape love, is not capable of rewiring a person's brain. It can relieve stress, it can give comfort, it can offer hope, but it can't rewire a person's brain.

 

[LuckyCharm]

Wow, Lamb's Love -- that must have been a horrifying experience!

I agree people can get very hurt in those kinds of relationships, or worse, as you point out! But what would Jesus do in that situation? Do you think He would just walk away from the person and never look back?

~~Cheryl

 

[debs]

I guess the thing is that when you open your heart to another person..which is what we should do, sometimes you can catch what they've got eg being around a person who is depressed, you can find that several hours or days later that youre feeling flat yourself. The thing is to cut soul and spiritual ties after the event in Jesus name and ensure youre free. Paul talked about being careful not to lay hands on a person straight away, because of this fact. thats my view anyway. Are you having a specific issu with someone?...debs

 

[wvmtnkid]

Hi Lucky Charm-

This post is a great question and I am sure it could have some very good discussion. So I am going to move it to Non-Denominational/Reformed/Protestant Discussion Forum.

Happy discussions!

 

[LuckyCharm]

Thanks for your reply, Debs! I like your idea of cutting soul ties in Jesus' name. Is there a scriptural reference for this?

And can you point me to the passage where Paul was careful about not laying hands on a person right away? I don't recall that one...

Thanks...

~~Cheryl

 

[SUNSTONE]

Stay away from man's wisdom, and stick with God's.

God's wisdom about relationships is guard your hearts. You witness to heathens, but don't make them close to your heart.
Jesus told his disciples, to preach the word and if they will not listen then kick the dust off of your shoes.

 

[Susan]

The thing is to cut soul and spiritual ties after the event in Jesus name and ensure youre free

Yes, but there is a qualitative difference between demonically influenced unbelievers and believers who are suffering.

In the first case, that is good advice.

In the second, it is the height of selfishness to abandon a Christian who is suffering simply because "you don't want what they have." I've heard this "logic" used to avoid anyone from the poor to those who are sick. Sin may be contagious. However poverty, noncommunicable disease, and many other afflictions are *NOT* contagious.

 

[debs]

Susan.. Being able to cut ties afterward is all the more reason to minister to as broad a group of people as the Lord can supply. Whoever wouldnt minister to another because they might actually get what theyve got either lacks faith, has a problem with that old spirit of fear, or some other reason..let God be the judge of his own servants not me.
I dont know what youve seen or heard or observed I heard a good word once from a teacher about how unholiness is catching , but holiness can only be caught from the Lord through His presence alone. Is that changing the subject? maybe.
Luckycharm, you will find that scripture in 1or 2 Timothy..use a bible search engine (crosswalk.com or biblegateway.com) search for 'laying'.
Theres hundreds of examples in the bible of God calling people to be seperated unto himself..look how elisha burned his cart and stuff to follow Gods call. or how Moses left his once beloved egypt for the call. or how Jesus called the young man to follow him and let the dead bury their dead. Sometimes, however we still seem partly controlled by another person and do find it difficult to break free without help . An example might be a persons ties with a divorced partner..in order to move on with Gods calling...
"What God has joined together let no man seperate" (Let God help with the seperating). As I said, it would be good to hear of your particular situation in example.

 

[ZiSunka]

Originally posted by LuckyCharm
Wow, Lamb's Love -- that must have been a horrifying experience!

I agree people can get very hurt in those kinds of relationships, or worse, as you point out! But what would Jesus do in that situation? Do you think He would just walk away from the person and never look back?

~~Cheryl

Jesus is God and God can change people. But human beings cannot change each other just by wishing it so. We do not have the power, only a relationship with God through Christ can really change people.

 

[paulewog]

/me doesn't think WE can change a person, only God can change someone's heart.

/me also thinks that this is why you shouldn't date or marry a non-Christian thinking "I'll convert him and we'll all live happily ever after."

 

[LuckyCharm]

Well. Long time no post....

I have finally rid my life of the toxic individual who has been dogging it for these past 2-3 years. Just the other day, I told him I was hereby discontinuing any form of contact with him, for good. It has gotten to the point where my blood pressure is dangerously high, and symptomatic. My doctor wants to run some tests after the first of the year. I know in my heart that's it's nothing but the stress -- I eat a healthy vegetarian diet, exercise vigorously and regularly, drink plenty of water, take vitamins.... In short, take the best care of myself possible. And I'm still a wreck, physically, emotionally, and even spiritually.

I feel oddly light, as if a great burden had just been lifted from me. Yet I can't escape the feeling that Jesus would never tell anyone never to contact Him again.... I feel that if I were only a stronger and better Christian, I would have been able to relate to him in agape love without allowing all his treachery and manipulation to "stick" to me like it has.

Anybody else ever struggled with a question like that?

~~Cheryl

 

[seebs]

Jesus would never do that, but Jesus can miraculously heal people. We shouldn't always do what Jesus would do - He was God, we aren't. Jesus would never raise a family in the traditional way; that doesn't mean it's wrong for us.

I think you have to do your best for people, but sometimes the best thing you can do for them isn't to put up with them.

 

[LuckyCharm]

Originally posted by seebs
Jesus would never do that, but Jesus can miraculously heal people. We shouldn't always do what Jesus would do - He was God, we aren't. Jesus would never raise a family in the traditional way; that doesn't mean it's wrong for us.

Thanks for the reply, seebs -- but that kinda puts a damper on the whole WWJD approach, doesn't it?

I think you have to do your best for people, but sometimes the best thing you can do for them isn't to put up with them.

I actually agree with you, strongly. What's the verse (I'm still at work, or I'd take the time to look it up) -- "The wounds of a friend are sweeter than the kisses of an enemy"?

If I didn't believe that, I never would have left my abusive husband years ago. But I still struggle to reconcile it with the whole "turn the other cheek, go the extra mile," etc. teaching of Jesus.

~~Cheryl

 

[hugoguttman]

Jesus is God and God can change people. But human beings cannot change each other just by wishing it so. We do not have the power, only a relationship with God through Christ can really change people.

That is completely right.  When we open our heart to Jesus, He can change all our bad habbits into love.

It is written:

Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest

Now... what is written in 1 Timotevs 5:22

Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, and do not share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure.

I interpret it as not laying hands just for laying.  I can say laying hands is a delicate action that we must not lay them so lightly.

It´s my oppinion.  Anyone else?

Pax.

Hugo.

 

[dignitized]

any relationship which pulls you as a Christian out of good fellowship and/or away from Christ Jesus is toxic.

 

[LuckyCharm]

Hi Hugo,

Originally posted by hugoguttman
Now... what is written in 1 Timotevs 5:22

I interpret it as not laying hands just for laying.  I can say laying hands is a delicate action that we must not lay them so lightly. /B]

I thought this referred to the laying on of hands in ordination. In other words, don't be hasty in appointing church leaders, because you will share in their sins if you do.

~~Cheryl

 

[LuckyCharm]

Originally posted by Br. Max
any relationship which pulls you as a Christian out of good fellowship and/or away from Christ Jesus is toxic.

Good point, Br. Max, and I totally agree. Jesus said we mustn't hesitate to walk away from even our families, be willing to lose a body part rather than sin. He was that serious about it....

But let's face it -- if I'm to love my enemies the way He talked about loving them, I am going to sin sometimes. I will grieve the Spirit by giving in to anger, impatience, despair, etc. from time to time, because I'm dealing with an enemy! It's only to be expected -- that's what makes it hard, and that's why Jesus said the pagans don't do it. It's easy to love those who love us, and to turn our backs on those who abuse us. Anybody can do that. My understanding is that Jesus is calling us to weather those inner storms for His sake.

It seems like a contradiction. When caught in a situation that saps our strength and vitality and makes impossible demands on us, do we try all the harder to love in His name, in spite of it all? Or do we walk away without looking back, shaking the very dust from our feet?

~~Cheryl

 

[dignitized]

Charm: there is a stumble and then there is a fall. stumble and get up - fall . . . try to avoid the falls.

 

[LuckyCharm]

Originally posted by Br. Max
Charm: there is a stumble and then there is a fall. stumble and get up - fall . . . try to avoid the falls.

Good thought, Br. Max, but I'm afraid I don't quite see how it relates to my previous post. Could you elaborate a little?

Thanks,

~~Cheryl