Can there be morality without God?

[Eudaimonist]

In the study of psychology there are the levels of morality by Kolberg.

Those sorts of scales never really demonstrate anything. They say far more about the values of the scale-writer than anything else.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[PapaBillyJr2]

Hitler was a Catholic, so I would think it likely. If you get to heaven, you might very well get to hang around with Hitler.

I'll let you read this for yourself, and this will answer the question that follows. Read the second commandment in Exodus 20:4-5. Then ask if Hiltler was a catholic, was he a Christian?

 

[PapaBillyJr2]

That's the whole point. Coming from people anything would be found acceptable. What kind of morality could that produce?

 

[ThinkForYourself]

I'll let you read this for yourself, and this will answer the question that follows. Read the second commandment in Exodus 20:4-5. Then ask if Hiltler was a catholic, was he a Christian?

There are many bibles out there, and literally tens of thousands of Christian denominations.

Are you claiming to be all knowing, and the final arbiter of which are "Christian" and which are not?

As I said, Hitler was a Catholic, so if you make it to heaven, it is likely you will be able to hang around with him.

 

[BL2KTN]

Another Old Testament commandment Hitler broke was eating shrimp. Obviously he and all the other heathen shrimp eaters of the world are NOT Christians.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

That's the whole point. Coming from people anything would be found acceptable. What kind of morality could that produce?

Well, we know the God of the bible condones slavery, genocide, infanticide, misogyny, etc.. (If you were unaware of this, you can find the appropriate bible verses by googling those terms along with the word "bible")

So I would say almost anything would produce a better morality.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

I'll let you read this for yourself, and this will answer the question that follows. Read the second commandment in Exodus 20:4-5. Then ask if Hiltler was a catholic, was he a Christian?

So you've never done any kind of yard work on the Sabbath eh?

 

[Loudmouth]

That's the whole point. Coming from people anything would be found acceptable. What kind of morality could that produce?

It would produce Christianity and all the other religions since they come from men. What we are asking is that instead of basing religion on "____insert deity here_____ says so", we should be focusing on using that little bean between our ears to figure out a rational and fact based morality.

 

[PapaBillyJr2]

That makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Loudmouth]

That makes absolutely no sense.

If humans can make sense of morality, then what do we need religions for?

 

[Golden Yak]

That's the whole point. Coming from people anything would be found acceptable. What kind of morality could that produce?

How do you think God determined whether or not something is moral? What criteria did He use? What does He define morality to be? Does He have any kind of basis? Is He just throwing out commandments at random?

How is godly morality not just 'coming from God, anything would be found acceptable?'

 

[PapaBillyJr2]

To many questions, not enough answers. But if we look in the Bible, we will find all answers.
GOD

 

[Golden Yak]

Sorry if I overburdened you. Try just my last one:

How is godly morality not just 'coming from God, anything would be found acceptable?'

 

[Dave Ellis]

To many questions, not enough answers. But if we look in the Bible, we will find all answers.
GOD

If all the answers are in your bible, then it shouldn't be too difficult for you to relay them on to us....

 

[Loudmouth]

To many questions, not enough answers. But if we look in the Bible, we will find all answers.
GOD

How can we know that those answers are actually moral?

If I said that a commandment was moral because it was found in the Koran, would you agree?

 

[ron4shua]

loudmouth said ;

Originally Posted by ron4shua View Post

Can there be morality without God?

NO !

Why not?

1 John 4 The Scriptures (ISR 1998)

15Whoever confesses that יהושע is the Son of Elohim, Elohim stays in him, and he in Elohim.

16And we have known and believed the love that Elohim has for us. Elohim is love, and he who stays in love stays in Elohim, and Elohim in him.

17By this love has been perfected with us, in order that we might have boldness in the day of judgment, because as He is so are we in this world.

18There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear holds punishment, and he who fears has not been made perfect in love.

19We love Him because He first loved us.

20If someone says, “I love Elohim,” and hates his brother, he is a liar. For the one not loving his brother whom he has seen, how is he able to love Elohim whom he has not seen?

21And we have this command from Him, that the one loving Elohim should love his brother too.

( " Elohim is love " )

 

[Dave Ellis]

loudmouth said ;

Originally Posted by ron4shua View Post

Can there be morality without God?

NO !

Why not?

1 John 4 The Scriptures (ISR 1998)

15Whoever confesses that יהושע is the Son of Elohim, Elohim stays in him, and he in Elohim.

16And we have known and believed the love that Elohim has for us. Elohim is love, and he who stays in love stays in Elohim, and Elohim in him.

17By this love has been perfected with us, in order that we might have boldness in the day of judgment, because as He is so are we in this world.

18There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear holds punishment, and he who fears has not been made perfect in love.

19We love Him because He first loved us.

20If someone says, “I love Elohim,” and hates his brother, he is a liar. For the one not loving his brother whom he has seen, how is he able to love Elohim whom he has not seen?

21And we have this command from Him, that the one loving Elohim should love his brother too.

( " Elohim is love " )

And what's that supposed to prove?

 

[ThinkForYourself]

To many questions, not enough answers. But if we look in the Bible, we will find all answers.
GOD

And if you ask an Australian Aboriginal, he might well tell you where to find all the answers: The Dreamtime.

What's your point?

 

[Loudmouth]

loudmouth said ;

Originally Posted by ron4shua View Post

Can there be morality without God?

NO !

Why not?

1 John 4 The Scriptures (ISR 1998)

15Whoever confesses that יהושע is the Son of Elohim, Elohim stays in him, and he in Elohim.

16And we have known and believed the love that Elohim has for us. Elohim is love, and he who stays in love stays in Elohim, and Elohim in him.

17By this love has been perfected with us, in order that we might have boldness in the day of judgment, because as He is so are we in this world.

18There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear holds punishment, and he who fears has not been made perfect in love.

19We love Him because He first loved us.

20If someone says, “I love Elohim,” and hates his brother, he is a liar. For the one not loving his brother whom he has seen, how is he able to love Elohim whom he has not seen?

21And we have this command from Him, that the one loving Elohim should love his brother too.

( " Elohim is love " )

What makes the claims of that man correct?

 

[PapaBillyJr2]

If all the answers are in your bible, then it shouldn't be too difficult for you to relay them on to us....

Absolutely. Open the bible, read it, and you will know your eternal destiny.