Can the Dietary Law Get You Cut Off From God

[Strong in Him]

Well lets take a look at what Paul says in (Ephesians 2:11-22) let’s look at the 11th through 13th verses.

So you're not going to address, or try to answer, the Scriptures which I gave you and which you asked for?

"Wherefore remember, that ye being in the time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called uncircumcision by that which is called the circumcision in the flesh made by hands; (12th vs.) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenant of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: (13th vs.) But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."

Yes - we are Gentiles, and according to the Jews are "uncircumcised".
Gentiles were not God's people and not part of God's covenant - as those Scriptures that I quoted say, the covenant was made with ISRAEL. Gentiles were outside of Israel, not god's people, not chosen by him and were considered by the Jews to be unclean.
But now we are in Christ; we who were far from God have now been brought close to God, by the blood of Christ.

This doesn't say that we have to keep the Jewish law.

Sorry pal but if you reading this Bible and being Baptised in the name of Jesus and keeping the passover and following the rest of laws that are required, you are in this new covenant.

Sorry, but the New Covenant was made by God and sealed with the blood of Christ, Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 8:6-13.
I AM in the New Covenant - that happened through Christ, NOT by keeping Jewish law.

(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

We are justified by faith, Romans 5:1.

Again, because you didn't answer it the first time; are you saying that Jesus died to reconcile us to God, give us eternal life, and if we accept that we will be saved - but if we eat a bacon sandwich we are then condemned to hell?

PS, I realise that you want to emphasise certain words/verses, and maybe also you need large print, but writing in bold print and underlining is the equivalent of shouting, and it is rather off putting.

 

[Jamdoc]

I want to call out that, I don't think the dietary laws were meant to be restrictive for no reason, I think they were established to protect us from animals that would carry diseases that could be transmissable to us, or that we're commonly allergic to (such as shellfish).
These were given to people who were wandering in the wilderness and did not have the sanitation and preservation means to make sure that things like worms in pork weren't an issue for them.

God declared at the very least, Pork, clean in Acts 10:11-15, There had to have been pork at the least that was considered clean because Peter balked when God told him to rise, kill, and eat. That means there was SOMETHING in that vessel that was at one time considered unclean. God rebuked him and said that everything in that vessel, including all four footed beasts of the earth, such as pigs, was made clean.

If it's a stumbling block to you by all means, but I will eat pork with thanksgiving, having faith that Acts is also, the word of God.

 

[Strong in Him]

I want to call out that, I don't think the dietary laws were meant to be restrictive for no reason,

I don't know if that was addressed to me, but my point is that they weren't given to us at all.

As far as I can see, eating "clean" animals, wearing clothes from only one kind of fabric, being faithful and pure in intimate relationships and not marrying someone of another faith which would lead to the introduction of other gods and would contaminate their religion, were all ways in which the Hebrews were to be holy - set aside for God, single minded and dedicated to him alone. This was how they were to show that they accepted God's covenant; it was how they were to put their faith into action.
Jesus came to reconcile us to God, give us forgiveness, eternal life and make us new creations. He has given us his Spirit, who conforms that we are God's children. He does call us to put God first and to put our faith into action; but this faith and new covenant relationship is through him, not through keeping the laws that were given to the Israelites at Mt Sinai.

 

[Jamdoc]

I don't know if that was addressed to me, but my point is that they weren't given to us at all.

As far as I can see, eating "clean" animals, wearing clothes from only one kind of fabric, being faithful and pure in intimate relationships and not marrying someone of another faith which would lead to the introduction of other gods and would contaminate their religion, were all ways in which the Hebrews were to be holy - set aside for God, single minded and dedicated to him alone. This was how they were to show that they accepted God's covenant; it was how they were to put their faith into action.
Jesus came to reconcile us to God, give us forgiveness, eternal life and make us new creations. He has given us his Spirit, who conforms that we are God's children. He does call us to put God first and to put our faith into action; but this faith and new covenant relationship is through him, not through keeping the laws that were given to the Israelites at Mt Sinai.

No it wasn't addressed to anyone in particular, just something I wanted to say to everyone in the thread. That there is a REASON why the dietary laws existed in the first place. God was looking out for the Israelites in the wilderness. All the things considered unclean in the levitical law were things that commonly carried parasites, viruses, toxins, or things people were allergic to
A lot of times the commandments of God are just good sensible things to do because they protect us from harm.
I think that Peter was shown these things to be clean because God wanted the gospel to be spread to gentiles, who did not obey Jewish dietary laws, so they may need to eat pork here and there when spreading the gospel to gentile nations, and God wanted to clear it up that these were considered clean now.

 

[NoNameNothing]

Spiritual masturbation? Wow, what an analogy! So direct, but so apt.

And is also a defilement of the arguments put forward... If I remember rightly, the Bible says you shouldn't even speak of things that are carnal. Using that phrase is offensive to God, surely, especially when you are debating O.T Law and what is or isn't applicable for N.T Believers! Do you think Jesus would use that terminology? I think not.

 

[Danigt22]

And is also a defilement of the arguments put forward... If I remember rightly, the Bible says you shouldn't even speak of things that are carnal. Using that phrase is offensive to God, surely, especially when you are debating O.T Law and what is or isn't applicable for N.T Believers! Do you think Jesus would use that terminology? I think not.

Jhon uses this type of images in the book of revelation.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Would be a blessing if you provide some scriptures to go with that. Jesus says... Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-19)
Now, if the Jesus said think not that I came to destroy the law, lets reason together, what do destroy mean; to take away, etc, right. So that simply means that the law is still on the table and the prophets. Jesus couldn't destroy the prophet because he had to fulfilled all of what the prophets wrote about jesus and what he had to do.

First of all, all is not fulfilled, let's look at this again
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Let's take a look and see when the heaven and earth will pass. Revelation 6: 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

This is the time when heaven and earth will begin passing a way. But let's read it from the first prophet who wrote about this event. Let's go into Daniel 7:
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. Lets read this event one more time in the new testament in Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Now let's fast forward to the future....Lets go into Revelation 21: 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. There's still more Jesus have to fulfill by the prophets.

There are 613 Mitzvot's and a good majority of them can not be observed. If the Father commanded observance , then there would be no obstacles. We await His second coming as the last and only promise left to be fulfilled. The Day of the Lord when all will be resurrected, some to everlasting life and some to condemnation. Be blessed.

 

[1213]

...Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air...

Thanks for the scripture. Creeping things and fowls may include bats and perhaps even shellfish. However, the problem with this is, it was a dream and it does not necessary mean that all those are cleaned, because the context is about can gentiles be accepted. But I think that scripture is the reason why Christians commonly eat those things that were formerly unclean. And if they eat clean food, it is not against the law. But, the problem is that it may be little unclear does it truly mean that all of those are declared clean. In any case, if person thinks he is eating something that is clean, I don’t think it is a problem, but if person thinks something is unclean, it would be better not to eat.

 

[NoNameNothing]

Jhon uses this type of images in the book of revelation.

Where do you see that? I don't. The language used, that I criticised IS offensive. You cannot discuss Holy things and mix it in with something God does not approve of (even though it is a "natural" thing that Men and Women do) I'm still struggling with that myself, but it's Unclean.(and is like the Gateway, if you like, to further immorality in other obvious ways)

 

[Danigt22]

Where do you see that? I don't. The language used, that I criticised IS offensive. You cannot discuss Holy things and mix it in with something God does not approve of (even though it is a "natural" thing that Men and Women do) I'm still struggling with that myself, but it's Unclean.(and is like the Gateway, if you like, to further immorality in other obvious ways)

How about the image of Jezebel,

"20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.".

Or Ms Harlot

"17 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters:

2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."

 

[NoNameNothing]

How about the image of Jezebel,

"20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.".

Or Ms Harlot

"17 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters:

2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."

I'm aware of those Scriptures! They do NOT go into very specific detail though. I guess it all depends on where anyone's mind is at, but, those Scriptures aren't exactly inviting you to participate in the activities mentioned. My criticism stands. I don't see how a discussion on Holy-Matters can include a comparison with masturbation. It's just NOT acceptable or Right.

 

[Danigt22]

I'm aware of those Scriptures! They do NOT go into very specific detail though. I guess it all depends on where anyone's mind is at, but, those Scriptures aren't exactly inviting you to participate in the activities mentioned. My criticism stands. I don't see how a discussion on Holy-Matters can include a comparison with masturbation. It's just NOT acceptable or Right.

He was referring to laws no longer are needed, since we cannot be unclean when the holy ghost is with us. I believe he was using that phrase to parallel Jhons type of writting and put attention to a type of Jezebel.

 

[Jamdoc]

Thanks for the scripture. Creeping things and fowls may include bats and perhaps even shellfish. However, the problem with this is, it was a dream and it does not necessary mean that all those are cleaned, because the context is about can gentiles be accepted. But I think that scripture is the reason why Christians commonly eat those things that were formerly unclean. And if they eat clean food, it is not against the law. But, the problem is that it may be little unclear does it truly mean that all of those are declared clean. In any case, if person thinks he is eating something that is clean, I don’t think it is a problem, but if person thinks something is unclean, it would be better not to eat.

Would it be included in the word of God, as words spoken by God to an apostle, if it was not truth?

also bats are not birds. They're beasts, mammals.

 

[Jamdoc]

Where do you see that? I don't. The language used, that I criticised IS offensive. You cannot discuss Holy things and mix it in with something God does not approve of (even though it is a "natural" thing that Men and Women do) I'm still struggling with that myself, but it's Unclean.(and is like the Gateway, if you like, to further immorality in other obvious ways)

The bible is full of strong language, including scatalogical and sexual terms, the language itself is not so much of a problem, unless it is a stumbling block to a brother. Which if that kind of language is a stumbling block to you sure, we should avoid it. But I do question how such words are stumbling blocks to you when the bible has God using the word harlot and describing Israel as "gone a whoring", and refers to leaving the corpses of slain israelites as dung on the earth, not buried or mourned.

Also some it's hard to keep a list of "naughty words" when the meaning of words changes over time. Some people consider ass to be a profane word, but in biblical times, asses were beasts of burden.

I think it is a failing of our culture that using the Lord's name in vain, and using Jesus' name as an utterancy of a curse word is seen as "soft" cursing that's acceptable in prime time TV, while scatalogical and sexual terms are considered off limits. That's so backwards!
Profaning the holy is SO MUCH WORSE than some vulgar term for a natural function.
The avoidance of vulgarity is not because vulgarity is offending God but because it makes our testimony weaker in front of other people, it makes us seem more worldly and less holy. I can understand that, but sometimes, the bible it self uses terms we would consider "vulgar" and even has the same meaning, like I described above.
But what should be non negotiable, what is absolutely an on offense against the Lord, is profaning His name!
I don't feel conviction from the holy spirit about strong vulgar language, it's not a stumbling block to me, but I'll avoid it around people who it is a stumbling block around and I'll avoid it if I'm in a situation where it might weaken my testimony.
But I do feel conviction when I hear friends of mine profane the Lord's name as a curse. That makes me angry, especially when they themselves are Christian, it's just something the world has poisoned us with.

 

[Bro.T--2]

There are 613 Mitzvot's and a good majority of them can not be observed. If the Father commanded observance , then there would be no obstacles. We await His second coming as the last and only promise left to be fulfilled. The Day of the Lord when all will be resurrected, some to everlasting life and some to condemnation. Be blessed.

There's know Levitical Priesthood so we know we can't observe those laws, but the Dietary Laws we can. So, if an individual call themselves a Christian or a friend of Christ, the swine (pig) should never be on your dinner plate or anything else that the Lord deems unclean. Remember that Christ is the ONE that gave the dietary law. Remember Christ was the Rock that followed our fathers in the cloud in the wilderness (1 Corinthians 10:4). Remember, He is the Lord and He change not. Remember Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever Hebrews 13:8)! It has nothing to do with an animal being a scavenger or anything else. It has to do with thus say the Lord. He is the one that created us, HE knows what's good or not for His creation.

 

[Jamdoc]

There's know Levitical Priesthood so we know we can't observe those laws, but the Dietary Laws we can. So, if an individual call themselves a Christian or a friend of Christ, the swine (pig) should never be on your dinner plate or anything else that the Lord deems unclean. Remember that Christ is the ONE that gave the dietary law. Remember Christ was the Rock that followed our fathers in the cloud in the wilderness (1 Corinthians 10:4). Remember, He is the Lord and He change not. Remember Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever Hebrews 13:8)! It has nothing to do with an animal being a scavenger or anything else. It has to do with thus say the Lord. He is the one that created us, HE knows what's good or not for His creation.

Acts 10:15

 

[Bro.T--2]

So you're not going to address, or try to answer, the Scriptures which I gave you and which you asked for?



Yes - we are Gentiles, and according to the Jews are "uncircumcised".
Gentiles were not God's people and not part of God's covenant - as those Scriptures that I quoted say, the covenant was made with ISRAEL. Gentiles were outside of Israel, not god's people, not chosen by him and were considered by the Jews to be unclean.
But now we are in Christ; we who were far from God have now been brought close to God, by the blood of Christ.

This doesn't say that we have to keep the Jewish law.



Sorry, but the New Covenant was made by God and sealed with the blood of Christ, Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 8:6-13.
I AM in the New Covenant - that happened through Christ, NOT by keeping Jewish law.



We are justified by faith, Romans 5:1.

Again, because you didn't answer it the first time; are you saying that Jesus died to reconcile us to God, give us eternal life, and if we accept that we will be saved - but if we eat a bacon sandwich we are then condemned to hell?

PS, I realise that you want to emphasise certain words/verses, and maybe also you need large print, but writing in bold print and underlining is the equivalent of shouting, and it is rather off putting.

Weather a person is a Gentile or stranger, all have to follow the same path to Christ. The bible speaks of only one way to get eternal salvation. "One Lord, one faith, one baptism" (Ephesians 4:5). If you truly love God, then you will obey "Every word" that proceeds out of his mouth (Matthew 4:4). Paul said in Ephesians 2: 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 - And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; So now the Gentiles have to do the same things Israel have to do concerning the laws to get in the Kingdom of God. The foundation of the church started in the wilderness on the seventh day of the week, Paul told you that in Acts 7:38 - This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

There's no such thing as Jewish laws, all laws came from God through Moses. ...Jesus said in Matthew 19: 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Understand brothers and sisters that the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week, is included in the commandments as well.

 

[Bro.T--2]

Im pretty Im obeying the great majority of those laws, I live in celibacy and am a vegeterian. Nevertheless this doesnt take what James says. He was along side with Timothy very legalistic in what faith means, nevertheless he mentions only three restrictions for the gentiles when eating meat.

Peter said in 2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Peter is letting us know that the Old Testament is more surer then the New Testament.

Now Paul also said in Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. Keep in mind there was no New Testament when Paul and the apostles wrote these letters. Now lets go back into the Old testament in Leviticus 11:46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth: 47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

Both apostles is confirming that you go back and read where the laws came from.

 

[Jamdoc]

The Sabbath IS Saturday, and if you can take the day off for rest, do it, but remember that the sabbath was made for man, not the man for sabbath. Mark 2:27
It's the spirit of the law that's important, the sabbath was to rest from labor. It should be something to rejoice in that you are given rest, it shouldn't be something you have to be anxious over whether you can feed your family or not over it. Don't be a legalist over it.

 

[Bro.T--2]

Im cover in the blood of the lamb, nothing can make me unclean or my spirit has any sin since all of it is wash. The only way to deny your faith by actions, is by denying the needs of the body Christ not taking care of your brothers. Such as James and Timothy points out. Putting your desires in the matters of earth instead of the things above.

Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus. And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose.

That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check.