can the bible be infallibly interpreted?

[vnct]

Man or group that claims 100% right has in fact formed a theological IDOL that is IN CONFLICT with the scriptures. They (in effect) worship what they have had conjured up in their minds.

and fwiw...I blame NO MAN for that effort. It is of the DEVIL.

in other words, if Jesus is the only one who is infallible (as opposed to the authors of scripture), then may the bible also be regarded as infallible?

is it the 'infallible Jesus' + the 'infallible bible'? or is it the 'infallible Jesus' only?

 

[squint]

in other words, if Jesus is the only one who is infallible (as opposed to the authors of scripture), then may the bible also be regarded as infallible?

is it the 'infallible Jesus' + the 'infallible bible'? or is it the 'infallible Jesus' only?

Let's put this another way.

I quoted early in this thread that we ALL have our 'individual' reflections on all of these matters. The scriptures tell us this is so.

It is not only HIGHLY unlikely that ANY of us will have AN IDENTICAL reflection any more than ANY of us would have an ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL IN EVERY WAY FACE. No, make that IMPOSSIBLE. We are ALL unique individuals down to the LAST PERSON.

None of us should SEEK to take on the reflections of another person, other than the REFLECTION of PERFECTION. And this is what we WAIT FOR...

We OBSERVE Perfection in the hopes of HIM OVERTAKING us eventually in ALL of our entireties.

We can look then ONLY to Him.

When we look at the Word, the WORD itself CANNOT impart SPIRIT. They are MERELY WORDS on a page.

The Spirit GIVES LIFE to those Words. Every last ONE of them.

The Word and The Spirit are INSEPERABLE.

When we ALL have complete full perfection in us and with us, we will know it beyond any doubt.

In the meantime I have my own hands full with my own reflections, good or bad as they may be. And good and bad IS reflected in ALL of us eh?

No, I will not be taking on another mans claims to INFALLIBLE VIEWS because I await THE INFALLIBLE ONE. That mans CLAIMS are the claims of a PARTIAL SEER making A CLAIM that cannot possibly be true, and therefore such claims are not only IDOLS...they are LIES.

enjoy!

squint

 

[vnct]

When we look at the Word, the WORD itself CANNOT impart SPIRIT. They are MERELY WORDS on a page.

The Spirit GIVES LIFE to those Words. Every last ONE of them.

in the new testament, are the direct biblical quotations of Jesus in any way infallibly superior to the words of the apostles which are not otherwise direct quotations of Jesus?

and in the old testament, are the direct quotations of the Father in any way infallibly superior to the words of the prophets which are not otherwise direct quotations of the Father?

some have suggested to me that the only words of the bible which are infallible are the direct quotations of Jesus and the Father, and if they are not direct quotations of Jesus and the Father, then they are fallible. hence, every other verse of the bible is fallible, if they are not direct quotations of Jesus and the Father, according to their argument.

 

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in the new testament, are the direct biblical quotations of Jesus in any way infallibly superior to the words of the apostles which are not otherwise direct quotations of Jesus?

Of course His Words are 'Superior.' That does not mean that Paul or Peter may have PERFECT reflections on these matters. They both admitted that they did NOT see the 'whole picture.' That WHOLE PICTURE is only available to GOD Himself. By Paul's own lips:

Romans 11:33
O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Even God Himself, by taking ON The Role of The Suffering Servant did PAY HOMAGE and OBEDIENCE to the PREMENECE of THE SPIRIT. (this is NOT a 'flesh is evil view, so any reading please spare me)

and in the old testament, are the direct quotations of the Father in any way infallibly superior to the words of the prophets which are not otherwise direct quotations of the Father?

I cannot reasonably draw ANY distinctions between GODS WORDS of the O.T. and Jesus' Word in the N.T. They are completely compatible, but PROGRESSIVELY revealing.

In the O.T. we have LAW...in the NEW we have GRACE (Spirit) AND TRUTH applied to those same Words.

I would consider that ANY OTHER WORDS other than the DIRECT QUOTES of God through the Law/Prophets and through God in Flesh/Christ are INFERIOR as they are VIEWS of the SUPERIOR WORDS that are being viewed IN PART even by their own admissions.

some have suggested to me that the only words of the bible which are infallible are the direct quotations of Jesus and the Father, and if they are not direct quotations of Jesus and the Father, then they are fallible.

One can take a presentation of text and have that be true, even while holding that TRUTH in [partiality.] We know for example that it is TRUE that we all 'have' evil present or sin present. That is TRUE. Do we even KNOW IN full what this means? Probably NOT. We know GENERALLY but we do NOT know the fullness of what that means...nor in that case do I even WANT to. We can 'view' mysteries, such as the 'mystery of iniquity' or the 'mystery of the Incarnation' but that does not mean we KNOW these measures IN FULL.

hence, every other verse of the bible is fallible, if they are not direct quotations of Jesus and the Father, according to their argument.

Paul stated that we ALL start any BUILDING on the CORNERSTONE...

1 Cor. 3:
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

IF any working thereupon is NOT WORTHY it will not stand, but will be burned up.

Yet Paul was really OK no matter HOW Christ was proclaimed, even in PRETENCE...because (in part) Paul also knew that it is REALLY God in Christ who is BUILDING us. It is WE who are being fitted BY HIM for 'eternal habitations' in ALL of these events.

enjoy!

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[JAL]

No, I will not be taking on another mans claims to INFALLIBLE VIEWS because I await THE INFALLIBLE ONE. That mans CLAIMS are the claims of a PARTIAL SEER making A CLAIM that cannot possibly be true, and therefore such claims are not only IDOLS...they are LIES.

If someone claimed to be infallible on an issue of doctrine (viz. the pope), I wouldn't believe him unless I was 100% certain that he is, in fact, infallible. So I am certainly not asking you to accept a given person's claims to infallibility. The pope can claim infallibility all he wants. I don't believe him.

However, if you mean to suggests that no man can experience infallibility, how then did Paul write Romans? If Paul was fallible at that moment, he should have begun the epistle like this, "Look guys, I really don't know for sure what I'm talking about. I'm just sharing some opinions of mine."

I'll say it again. A person who feels 100% certain that he is infallible is blameless in claiming to be infallible. (But that doesn't mean that we have to believe him, unless we too are 100% certain of his infallibility).

This is how church leadership is supposed to work. In a true work of God (a true church), the members feel certain that their leaders are in fact appointed of God and thus entitled to our cooperation, respect, and allegiance.

 

[squint]

If someone claimed to be infallible on an issue of doctrine (viz. the pope), I wouldn't believe him unless I was 100% certain that he is, in fact, infallible. So I am certainly not asking you to accept a given person's claims to infallibility. The pope can claim infallibility all he wants. I don't believe him.

Not only do I not believe that, I don't think any kind of a case can be made from scripture for that position for ANY person except for God Himself in Christ.

However, if you mean to suggests that no man can experience infallibility, how then did Paul write Romans?

Weeeelllll, that does bring up some interesting observations. The Apostles of days of old had CERTAIN SIGNS that accompanied their ministrations. Don't want to get into the whole deal but it included A SPECIAL and DIRECT CALL and ACCOMPANIED by signs that testified to the 'validity' of what they had to say. But NONE of them took on the position of 'infallibility.' In fact in nearly every case it was NOT so. And that in itself is A TESTIMONY of HONESTY or TRUTH to the scriptures. I've brought this out several times in this thread, that Paul openly admitted the PRESENCE of EVIL, sin indwelling his flesh that was as he termed 'no longer I' and he also said that God Himself PUT A DEVIL upon him, and that he would [by that] GLORY in 'his infirmities' of that weakness because of what God advised him on the matter. Were the POPE to make that kind of a TRUTHFUL confession, his infallible state would quickly vanish in the cause of TRUTHFUL speaking.

I will even note that in order to be a Pope, that persons records are scoured to see if anyone they prayed for was actually healed, in order to confirm his forthcoming position. (Any RCC member can feel free to correct if this is not true.)

If Paul was fallible at that moment, he should have begun the epistle like this, "Look guys, I really don't know for sure what I'm talking about. I'm just sharing some opinions of mine."

I don't believe Paul said what was said without the TEST of scriptures upon his positions. He never said HEY, just take my word for it and DON'T bother verifying anything I'm saying. No. He encouraged intense study of scriptures and just as intense REASONING with them.

I'll say it again. A person who feels 100% certain that he is infallible is blameless in claiming to be infallible. (But that doesn't mean that we have to believe him, unless we too are 100% certain of his infallibility).

Believe what you want. Where I draw my line of open protest is using that postion to CONDEMN other believers to be potentially BURNED ALIVE FOREVER for not BOWING. On that ground I will say forget about it buddy. I don't care WHO you are IF you use your authority TO THAT END.

This is how church leadership is supposed to work. In a true work of God (a true church), the members feel certain that their leaders are in fact appointed of God and thus entitled to our cooperation, respect, and allegiance.

Every bully has a BLUDGEON. Some bullies use their tongues to bludgeon obedience with the THREAT of condemnations and eternal tortures of various sorts.

enjoy!

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[vnct]

I would consider that ANY OTHER WORDS other than the DIRECT QUOTES of God through the Law/Prophets and through God in Flesh/Christ are INFERIOR as they are VIEWS of the SUPERIOR WORDS that are being viewed IN PART even by their own admissions.

okay, thanks.