Can Someone Explain This To Me Please?

LastAttempt

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The only thing which should concern you is whether Christ died for your sins (according to the Scriptures), and rose again the third day for your justification (according to the Scriptures). You can hand over everything else to God.

Thank you so much for your response. I don't understand how to "hand over everything else to God". Everything else is a miasma of confusion, questions and opacity. I also have a panoply of questions about Christ himself, which I have omitted. I don't know how to believe something if I can't understand it. And not for lack of trying. Maybe I'm trying wrong.
 
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hedrick

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I should note that the estimate of the number of failures in the OP is by no means based on any definite information. Most Christians (although not necessarily most here) think many non-Christians may be saved. There is also a fairly small minority that think everyone will eventually be saved, although that's considered unorthodox.

You mention killing whole cities that didn't pass. I note that many of us (though a minority) don't regard that section of the Bible as historical. The New Testament is based on information from pretty near the events. There's also reason to think that there were records for much of the OT history. But almost certainly not for Genesis and Exodus.

There's a pretty widespread definition that a Christian is one who has Christ as Lord and Savior. Jesus himself says that means following his teachings, which of course include not just things like treating others well but prayer and loving God. I wouldn't consider beliefs about ancient history as an essential element in following Christ, nor is thinking that the Bible was written by people in a very different culture than ours a problem. In fact it seems obviously true.

Of course I'm categorized as a liberal, which many Christians think is a dirty word. But there are a fair number of us among both Catholics and Protestants.
 
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Micah888

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Thank you so much for your response. I don't understand how to "hand over everything else to God".
It would be similar to you going to your dad when you were little and simply handing something over to him which you could not solve. Say a puzzle. So all you do is go to God and say to Him "Lord I am handing my mess over to you. I will wait for your solution. Thank you in advance for your help".
Everything else is a miasma of confusion, questions and opacity. I also have a panoply of questions about Christ himself, which I have omitted. I don't know how to believe something if I can't understand it. And not for lack of trying. Maybe I'm trying wrong.
I am sure you have heard about the K.I.S.S. principle. So all you need to know about Christ for the moment is:

1. He is God
2. He died for my sins and rose again so that I would be saved.
3. He wants to save me for eternity.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Thank you for your response. This is exactly what I'm looking for. Someone to shred my logic until it becomes absurd to try to defend. THEN maybe my heart will change...maybe? The problem is I cannot pick and choose the parts of the Bible that make sense to me....it's all or nothing....and there's some seriously strange stuff in there. I've read the Bible in total twice, two different translations. No help, just a lot of opacity.

My problem is: God, being all powerful, creates things with their own free will. Every time he does this, free will takes over, and God loses them. Lots of them. Sometimes, most of them. Free will must be pretty important, considering what a truly horrible creation humanity turned out to be.
Humanity is bad, but try
To notice some of the beautiful things people do.

With free will it is about seeing the really good along with the really bad. Without free will there would really be no good or choice to be good
 
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Trimeresurus

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so God creating mankind with free choice is now He created murderers?

One of the 10 commandments is thou shaky not kill. I think we know where God stands.

The whole life on this planet is based on feeding on one another.
There is no life without killing. So who ever created this mess is clearly fine with murder. Or is it just a punishment for that chick who was eating the stupid apple? Looks like a slight overreaction.
But that's just point of view. No need to share it.
 
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LastAttempt

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I should note that the estimate of the number of failures in the OP is by no means based on any definite information. Most Christians (although not necessarily most here) think many non-Christians may be saved. There is also a fairly small minority that think everyone will eventually be saved, although that's considered unorthodox.

You mention killing whole cities that didn't pass. I note that many of us (though a minority) don't regard that section of the Bible as historical. The New Testament is based on information from pretty near the events. There's also reason to think that there were records for much of the OT history. But almost certainly not for Genesis and Exodus.

There's a pretty widespread definition that a Christian is one who has Christ as Lord and Savior. Jesus himself says that means following his teachings, which of course include not just things like treating others well but prayer and loving God. I wouldn't consider beliefs about ancient history as an essential element in following Christ, nor is thinking that the Bible was written by people in a very different culture than ours a problem. In fact it seems obviously true.

Of course I'm categorized as a liberal, which many Christians think is a dirty word. But there are a fair number of us among both Catholics and Protestants.

Fabulous response, thank you. It's absolutely true the failure estimate is an educated guess based on what Jesus said it takes to make the cut. Jesus talks about hell WAY more than heaven, and I always wondered how scare tactics could possibly produce faithful followers. "I choose to believe because I'm scared of death". Well, I'm not scared of death, and I can't WAIT to get out of here. My greatest hope is that we blip into nothingness, exactly as the time up to our birth. I'm not afraid of the time before my birth - why would I not be anxious to get back to it ASAP - because this place is obviously very, very broken - and I'll PASS PLEASE.

My greatest fear is that our souls are immortal, and I will continue on in some form after death, forever. I want the option of non-existence. I would trade this dumpster fire of a world (and anything that comes after it) for non-existence this very moment, if I could. Not suicide, but having never been born. Although, suicide is also quite attractive. One seems impossible, the other is totally under my control. I feel like I should have the right to choose to be here or not. I pick not. So much not.

You say "I [you] wouldn't consider beliefs about ancient history as an essential element in following Christ, nor is thinking that the Bible was written by people in a very different culture than ours a problem. In fact it seems obviously true."

This I don't understand. If the basic premise does not make sense to you, nothing else will, either. I have to start at the beginning, and it has to make some sort of sense. Rational sense. Logical. Lofty theological concepts can be imminently logical, since logic is not a human construct. I just can't find any, or anyone to point them out for me.

You mention the variety of viewpoints on this matter from the faithful. I believe this illustrates how vague the Bible is, or we wouldn't all be having regular demoralizing arguments over interpretation. This must have been intentional. That brings me full circle back to translation. The reason being this literature is so old and has been translated so, so many times, to quote the 3 amigos: "I do not think it means what you think it means". +3 points if you remember that scene. I have a feeling lots of people (read: leadership) believe they have a secure grasp of Biblical concepts, but in actuality, it's all just guesswork that varies with each different iteration of Christianity. The differences are not perfunctory.

This became too long, I'll stop here.
 
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LastAttempt

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The whole life on this planet is based on feeding on one another.
There is no life without killing. So who ever created this mess is clearly fine with murder. Or is it just a punishment for that chick who was eating the stupid apple? Looks like a slight overreaction.
But that's just point of view. No need to share it.

Yet another point I wanted to make. Life is predicated on death by design. The whole life cycle is based upon predation. That does NOT seems like a design based in love. That seems like a design that was set in motion and then abandoned. I would not call predation murder, but it does sadden me that God was so big on sacrificing animals. We have the intellect to know why we are suffering...animals don't even have that. It's pitiful.

Then you get into original sin - Another concept that makes no sense to me. An apple, a snake, God asking "why are you hiding" when he obviously knew the answer since forever - and having that mistake persist throughout the entire human race. Hey, I ate NO forbidden fruit...why am I being forced to live through this indecipherable garbage?
 
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LastAttempt

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so God creating mankind with free choice is now He created murderers?

One of the 10 commandments is thou shaky not kill. I think we know where God stands.

That's a REALLY old argument over whether God created sin since God created everything. Or, at least God made sure to give us ample opportunity to disobey. This is like, step #200 on the way to accepting Christian theology. I'm on step #2.
 
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LastAttempt

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Humanity is bad, but try
To notice some of the beautiful things people do.

With free will it is about seeing the really good along with the really bad. Without free will there would really be no good or choice to be good

I feel like your first sentence is describing noticing a needle in a haystack. Take my free will PLEASE. I'd much, much rather be a happy robot. Pretty Please?
 
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Trimeresurus

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Yet another point I wanted to make. Life is predicated on death by design. The whole life cycle is based upon predation. That does NOT seems like a design based in love. That seems like a design that was set in motion and then abandoned. I would not call predation murder, but it does sadden me that God was so big on sacrificing animals. We have the intellect to know why we are suffering...animals don't even have that. It's pitiful.

Then you get into original sin - Another concept that makes no sense to me. An apple, a snake, God asking "why are you hiding" when he obviously knew the answer since forever - and having that mistake persist throughout the entire human race. Hey, I ate NO forbidden fruit...why am I being forced to live through this indecipherable garbage?

Why was the fruit forbidden? It came from the tree of knowledge and Lucifer himself promised godlike wisdom. God did not want people to have that wisdom so he punished them. So who is the bad guy now?
We have the intellect to know that others are suffering but still we are accepting it as long as we are fine. That's the truth. Why else would we sit here? We olny help others when we are directly involved. As you said we are not based on love. That's just what we like to see.
 
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LastAttempt

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It would be similar to you going to your dad when you were little and simply handing something over to him which you could not solve. Say a puzzle. So all you do is go to God and say to Him "Lord I am handing my mess over to you. I will wait for your solution. Thank you in advance for your help".

I am sure you have heard about the K.I.S.S. principle. So all you need to know about Christ for the moment is:

1. He is God
2. He died for my sins and rose again so that I would be saved.
3. He wants to save me for eternity.


I don't understand this reductive "all you need to know right now is..." stuff. None of those three things are possible if I don't understand and believe the underlying premise. There's no context. I cannot force myself to believe something, can I? Maybe John Calvin had it right, and I was created specifically for hell, which is why I have ZERO inner revelation. Or, I lost it somewhere along the way, never to be found. I'm just wondering if God can speak to me through anyone here. It's certainly not happening irl, and I don't really have much time to figure it out.
 
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ToBeLoved

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The whole life on this planet is based on feeding on one another.
There is no life without killing. So who ever created this mess is clearly fine with murder. Or is it just a punishment for that chick who was eating the stupid apple? Looks like a slight overreaction.
But that's just point of view. No need to share it.
Ok. I see you have biased opinion since God specifically put in the Law “thou shalt not kill”.

Given your biase it’s not worth discussing
 
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ToBeLoved

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That's a REALLY old argument over whether God created sin since God created everything. Or, at least God made sure to give us ample opportunity to disobey. This is like, step #200 on the way to accepting Christian theology. I'm on step #2.
Sin is the result of an action. So saying God created sin is a superficial understanding.

You cannot have real love without free will and obviously given the commands Jesus left us with, Love is the secret sauce of God.

I don’t expect you to look that deep though.
 
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Trimeresurus

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Ok. I see you have biased opinion since God specifically put in the Law “thou shalt not kill”.

Given your biase it’s not worth discussing

"Thou shall not kill" doens't involve "I shall not kill". ;)
But you are right, we have a different point of view. That's okay, I see the story from a different perspective.
 
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ToBeLoved

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I feel like your first sentence is describing noticing a needle in a haystack. Take my free will PLEASE. I'd much, much rather be a happy robot. Pretty Please?
I was responding to a specific person and their reply.

Reading it without that context it makes little sense.
 
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