Can someone explain this contradiciton?

[com7fy8]

The definition of punish is to inflict penalty for an offense. I would say the child is punished; If punishment to David was the true reason... why not just kill him?

Well, adultery is a death penalty offense, according to the law of Moses. And I would say David knew this.

So, yes there is something to get out of the fact that God did not have David executed.

One possible reason was David was the anointed king of Israel. So, who could have authority to kill him? Remember how David did not dare to kill Saul, though Saul was worthy of death. Because Saul was the LORD's anointed, David said.

Also > the son could not be king if he was the child of adultery, I suppose. But if God wanted a child of Bathsheba to be king, there would need to be a later son, after David and Bathsheba became man and wife. So, the child wasn't being punished, but they needed a legitimate son.

And we see how things, here, can work with Jesus who died for our sins. The first son died, so the legitimate son could have life and reign as king. So, the first son was not being punished but given in the place of the one who would be king . . . like how Jesus was given for us . . . though Jesus is innocent. There is a big difference between being punished as a guilty person, versus taking someone else's punishment which you do not deserve.

The whole thing, then, could be a symbolism prophesying how Christ would take our punishment so we now can start new with God.

Things can go so differently when Jesus is involved > very guilty people are kept and get mercy. David was given mercy. And the later son of Bathsheba was not well established with the earlier sons of David; so he could keep clear of their wrong stuff so he could be a good king and wise. So, this shows how God with Jesus has things not controlled by a person's own sin history. God was acting according to His longterm vision of how things work with Jesus.

But what Ezekiel said gives an object lesson of how things work without Jesus.

If a person joins with Jesus, this person also shares with Christ in His history . . . of Jesus Christ's death, burial, and resurrection and all which then comes and is shared with each of us who has trusted in Jesus. What happened with David is given as a sample of how this can work.

um does this mean that God will take my family away as punishment if i sinned badly as well..? ><

If you consider what I have offered, above > yes, there are punishments right for people who have done wrong. So, of course, if you have done wrong, you are deserving of punishment and other consequences.

But Jesus on the cross has canceled all that, in order that God's good may come. God always is free to forgive anyone and have the person do what is better. With Jesus, you may have mercy and do better . . . so that you have a new history in sharing with Christ ! ! !

What Ezekiel says is an object lesson to show how things work without Jesus. It shows how things work with sin, but we can discover how God works through Jesus.

But if we trust in Jesus on the cross, He cancels how things work for people in Satan's kingdom, and all things become new.

And then you have compassion and humble caring for others whose sin has gotten themselves into impossible situations. You forgive, now, out of appreciation for how Jesus has had compassion on you.

The death of his son is him receiving a penalty (punishment) for his fathers adultery.

No, I would say > he was taking the hit so he would not be around to be considered an illegitimate who would be older than Solomon who was to be king. God wanted a child of legitimate birth to be king . . . in my understanding, for you to consider.

Yes David is also punished but punishment isn't mutually exclusive; it can effect multiple people. If David wouldn't of sin and conceived his baby the way he did; it would of lived.

For one thing, the baby of adultery was not an "it"!

And a punishment can not hurt you unless you let it. It can't be a punishment for an innocent person, especially if he or she does not let it hurt him or her.

The baby dying could be symbolism, as I have offered, of Jesus taking our punishment on Himself, so we now can be alive and free of the guilt of our past. So, this whole thing can be a prophetic thing symbolizing all Jesus has suffered and done for us all, on the cross.

One passage correctly speaks of how only the sinner bears the moral culpability of his sin. The other correctly speaks of how other people can suffer the temporal consequences of sin, even if they had no responsibility for committing it.

When parents make bad decisions are not their children often negatively impacted?

Well, our Apostle Paul does say that through Adam sin entered into the world and death by means of sin. So, I see that somehow Adam did pass on his problem . . . to the world . . . which I can see means all of us.

So, another consider in this mix > how can this work? I would say by means of "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience." (in Ephesians 2:2) The evil spirit of Adam and Eve's sin got involved with their conceptions so their children could have sin by means of the evil spirit of disobedience passed to them through conception from Adam and Eve.

And it appears to me, that even little babies can fail to be totally unselfish and all-loving. All need not only to be forgiven and freed from some punishment, but all need to be turned "from the power of Satan to God" (Acts 26:18), so that spiritually we become joined to Jesus > each "one spirit with Him" > 1 Corinthians 6:17. And in union with Christ we become more and more maturely like Him in God's own love and character.

So, David was wise to accept God's mercy and then do better. And King Solomon was wise to listen to his mother and put away enemies, so he could have what is better than what his father had. Indeed, David had been a man of bloodshed, doing all the military stuff he did; and the LORD said there needed to be a king of a better history to take David's place. And there was the removal of the son of adultery, in order to have a qualified king, also.

Another consideration > no, the child of adultery did not do anything to deserve punishment. But he was conceived by David while David was operating in a spirit of adultery and murder. So, how much could that spirituality have passed into the conception? I consider this. But . . . by the time David conceived Solomon, David had repented and been wise to accept God's mercy. And, lo and behold > Solomon came out a man after God's heart . . . like David had been known to be, at least earlier in his life.

Even so, though, Solomon did fail however he did. And this, I would say, is meant as an object lesson . . . yet another . . . of how things work without Jesus. But we now can discover how things work with Jesus

 

[DamianWarS]

I've literally had nobody that was properly able to answer this.


In Ezekiel 18:20 it is quoted " The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them."

2 Samuel 12:10 however God directly kills David's son for his adultery and David's other children "Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own." and 2 Samuel 12:14 "But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for the LORD, the son born to you will die."

Hebraic logic doesn't always agree but rather creates tension where both are true at the same time.

 

[danielmears]

I've literally had nobody that was properly able to answer this.


In Ezekiel 18:20 it is quoted " The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them."

2 Samuel 12:10 however God directly kills David's son for his adultery and David's other children "Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own." and 2 Samuel 12:14 "But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for the LORD, the son born to you will die."

David reaped what he had sown. Later, after the child had died and David had returned from fasting, wondering if perhaps the Lord would be gracious to him, he went in and comforted Bath-sheba. It says, he, "lay with her and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him." 2 Samuel 12:24 So, what we reap we may sow; the child was not guilty but children do die who are not guilty of any sin. Solomon was loved by the Lord. Therefore the scriptures hold true, unrighteousness brings corresponding action and likewise righteousness too brings corresponding action. This is why we are told to, Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God; I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness. Isaiah 41;10 When we are in right-standing with God, walking in love and faith, then good fruit will come forth. Likewise, one who sows treacherously will reap adversity. The scriptures are filled with power and truth, God bless!

 

[thomas_t]

I see it as yet another clear contradiction.

Hi Jack.
Here we disagree.
In my opinion, there is not one single contradiction in the Word if God!

Ezechiel 18 was written centuries after the incidence with David's son.
God didn't change the rules of the game until centuries later when David's son already was dead. So, there is no contradiction.
Regards,
Thomas

 

[Mathetes66]

The first thing I notice is that you did NOT say apparent contradiction, but this IS a contradiction. So no matter how many answers you actually get that resolves the apparent contradiction, it will not change your mind that this IS a contradiction. No answer will satisfy one whose mind is made up.

Second, the real issue is not this supposed contradiction, but questioning the very character & nature of God as being holy, just & righteous in these two situations. You pull isolated verses out of their contexts and then mix two different contexts to come up with your, in my opinion, flawed interpretations.

People in their posts have tried to show you this, but it appears your mind is made up: it is a contradiction not a supposed one and directly implying that God is not just, is not holy & is not righteous in these dealings.

It isn't about a supposed contradiction between Ezekiel & David; it is questioning God Himself. And it is questioning Scripture as well--the God breathed out words & revelation of God Himself.

You want some humanistic 'logical' explanation rather than that God is not going to contradict Himself, His nature & character nor what He has revealed in His Word. Simply because you can't HUMANLY & with your extremely limited 'RATIONAL' thinking as an individual reconcile these things, you conclude the revelation of God in Scripture is contradictory & directly imply that God is unjust.

The problem is not with God or His revelation in Scripture, the problem is with you. Because you can't rationally explain an apparent contradiction with your limited human intelligence, you say it IS a contradiction.

As a result, no answer will satisfy you, based on your limited parameters you place upon this. So no matter what one says (as this thread already shows, though some good answers have been given), you will not accept it by your pre-determined parameters.

People questioning God & His dealings learned their lesson when they responded in humility. Job did. He was an upright man who suffered trials in this life. His response to what SEEMED TO BE the injustice of God:

Job 1:20-22 Then Job arose & tore his robe & shaved his head & fell on the ground & worshiped. And he said, “Naked I came from my mother’s womb & naked shall I return. The Lord gave & the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.” In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrong.

Job 2:7-10 So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD & infected Job with terrible boils from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head. And Job took a piece of broken pottery to scrape himself as he sat among the ashes. Then Job’s wife said to him, “Do you still retain your integrity? Curse God & die!”

You speak as a foolish woman speaks,” he told her. “Should we accept from God only good & not adversity?” In all this, Job did not sin in what he said.

That is exactly what Satan said Job would do, even using Job's wife as an accuser against God! But he didn't.

Job 40:8 WOULD YOU REALLY ANNUL MY JUSTICE? WOULD YOU CONDEMN ME TO JUSTIFY YOURSELF?

Job 42:1-6 Then Job replied to the LORD: “I know that You can do all things & that no plan of Yours can be thwarted. You asked, ‘Who is this who CONCEALS MY COUNSEL WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE?'

Surely I spoke of things I did NOT understand, things too wonderful for me to know. You said, ‘Listen now & I will speak. I will question you & you shall answer.’ My ears had heard of You, but now my eyes have seen You. Therefore I retract my words & repent in dust & ashes.”

Asaph in Psalm 73 also questioned God's dealing with the wicked, as to why the wicked supposedly got away with things & why should he live righteously & suffer & yet the wicked seem to go unpunished. It didn't make sense to him, he couldn't rationally explain it...UNTIL...

Psalm 73:1-3,13-17,21,22 Surely God is good to Israel, to those who are pure in heart. But as for me, my feet had almost stumbled; my steps had nearly slipped. For I envied the arrogant when I saw the prosperity of the wicked.

Surely in vain I have kept my heart pure; in innocence I have washed my hands. For I am afflicted all day long & punished every morning. If I had said, “I WILL SPEAK THIS WAY, THEN I WOULD HAVE BETRAYED YOUR CHILDREN.

16When I tried to understand all this, it was troublesome in my sight UNTIL I entered God’s sanctuary;then I discerned their end. When my heart was grieved & I was pierced within, I was senseless & ignorant...

The prophet Habakkuk also learned, knowing God is holy & does not do evil, yet he couldn't understand God's dealings either. It SEEMED like a contradiction TO HIM.

Habakkuk 1:13 Your eyes are too pure to look upon evil & You cannot tolerate wrongdoing. So why do You tolerate the faithless?
Why are You silent while the wicked swallow up those more righteous than themselves?

Habakkuk 2:1 I will stand at my guard post & station myself on the ramparts. I will watch to see what He will say to me & how I should answer WHEN CORRECTED.

Hab 2:4 (God) "Look at the proud one; his soul is not upright—
but the righteous will live by faith..."

Hab 2:20 But the LORD is in His holy temple; let all the earth be silent before Him.”

Hab 3:2,17-19 O LORD, I have heard the report of You; I stand in awe, O LORD, of YOUR DEEDS. Though the fig tree does not bud & no fruit is on the vines, though the olive crop fails& the fields produce no food, though the sheep are cut off from the fold & no cattle are in the stalls, yet I will exult in the LORD; I will rejoice in the God of my salvation! GOD the Lord is my strength...

Many more examples could be used.

Isaiah 55:7-9 Let the wicked man forsake HIS OWN WAY & the unrighteous man HIS OWN THOUGHTS; let him return to the LORD,
that He may have compassion & to our God, for He will freely pardon.

8“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so My ways are higher than your ways & My thoughts than your thoughts.

Isaiah 29:16 You have turned things upside down, as if the potter were regarded as clay. Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, "He did not make me"? Can the pottery say of the potter, "He has no understanding"?

 

[danielmears]

Except this is mans idea of what happens. God said "the sword will never leave your house" implying that because of David's sin all the bad that happens after is because God caused it. Wouldn't that be God changing? The Bible claims that God doesn't change but you're implying he he's finding new ways to punish people; which is him changing.

When David chose to be violent and treacherous he reaps the consequences of what he has sown. As it says in Matthew, out of a good man's heart comes good, out of an evil man's heart, evil, paraphrased. God has a righteous system in place where it is done unto you according to how you believe in your heart, the center of your being. Therefore, David, until he repents, changes his inner thoughts and actions shall receive accordingly. I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. Jeremiah 17:10 This is spiritual law which does not change.
Trying the reins, is a great way to tell how a horse is feeling on the inside, whether he is irritated, excited or calm, content and ready to go for a fun ride. The Lord is telling us in the scriptures, giving us knowledge to understand how the spiritual realm operates. That is why Christ told us to love our enemies, power moves in the unseen every time we think! Think on good things we are instructed. So, David, is the only one responsible for the consequences that came upon him. To have good consequences we must do as instructed by the Christ. His teachings gives us guidance and the word is filled with power to assist the believer!

 

[aiki]

I've literally had nobody that was properly able to answer this.


In Ezekiel 18:20 it is quoted " The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them."

2 Samuel 12:10 however God directly kills David's son for his adultery and David's other children "Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own." and 2 Samuel 12:14 "But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for the LORD, the son born to you will die."

There's no contradiction between the verses you've posted that I can see. The first verse is speaking of personal guilt, the second, of the destructive side-effects of sin. No one shares in the guilt of my sin with me. I alone am guilty of the sin I commit. However, the sin I commit can - and often does - affect others destructively.

 

[Zachm531]

I've literally had nobody that was properly able to answer this.


In Ezekiel 18:20 it is quoted " The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them."

2 Samuel 12:10 however God directly kills David's son for his adultery and David's other children "Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own." and 2 Samuel 12:14 "But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for the LORD, the son born to you will die."

It says that the “guilt” wont be shared, it doesnt say anything about the punishment though

 

[TheDag]

Except this is mans idea of what happens. God said "the sword will never leave your house" implying that because of David's sin all the bad that happens after is because God caused it. Wouldn't that be God changing? The Bible claims that God doesn't change but you're implying he he's finding new ways to punish people; which is him changing.

When the bible says God never changes it is talking about God's character. God is always love. Always just. Always righteous etc. Gods character does not change.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I've literally had nobody that was properly able to answer this.


In Ezekiel 18:20 it is quoted " The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them."

2 Samuel 12:10 however God directly kills David's son for his adultery and David's other children "Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own." and 2 Samuel 12:14 "But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for the LORD, the son born to you will die."

This is my guess, but this is the type of question I would like to read up more on as far as Church Fathers and various theologians.

Anyway I see the first incident in Samuel as being a punishment of David. David was an important figure and symbol in the OT being a type of Christ etc. so this was a way of punishing David but doing it in a way that would keep him in play, etc. due to his importance in the Bible etc. it also deeply affected David and lead to his repentance. And in my personal belief, the child itself I do not believe was actually punished as far as the afterlife, I would suspect the child went to "the bosom of Abraham" etc.


The second verse in Ezekiel I see as foreshadowing and setting up NT testament justice etc.

So I guess I tend to see this about shifting gears between the covenants etc.

 

[TommySoda]

It says that the “guilt” wont be shared, it doesnt say anything about the punishment though

The word in Hebrew is "Avon" which means punishment.