Can someone explain this contradiciton?

[BNR32FAN]

I've literally had nobody that was properly able to answer this.


In Ezekiel 18:20 it is quoted " The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them."

2 Samuel 12:10 however God directly kills David's son for his adultery and David's other children "Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own." and 2 Samuel 12:14 "But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for the LORD, the son born to you will die."

Ezekiel is referring to spiritual life and death.

“The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself. "But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:20-21‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“Again, when a wicked man turns away from his wickedness which he has committed and practices justice and righteousness, he will save his life. Because he considered and turned away from all his transgressions which he had committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right? "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct," declares the Lord GOD. "Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:27-30‬ ‭NASB

All men have sinned against God and will die a physical death. It is impossible for someone to “save their life” from physical death by obedience because man is incapable of perfect obedience. The only death a man can save himself from is the spiritual death that comes on judgement day in the lake of fire.

So your mixing up a passage pertaining to spiritual death with another pertaining to a physical death. The son will not receive a spiritual death because of the sins of his father.

 

[Hawkins]

I've literally had nobody that was properly able to answer this.


In Ezekiel 18:20 it is quoted " The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them."

2 Samuel 12:10 however God directly kills David's son for his adultery and David's other children "Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own." and 2 Samuel 12:14 "But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for the LORD, the son born to you will die."

They are apples and oranges.

1) judgment of children not depending on sins of parents
It's a judgment on an individual. In the scenario of David, the death of his son is a punishment to David but has nothing to do with the judgment of his son. David's son is saved if he belongs to God no matter what.

2) curse of children due to ancestors' sins
It's a cultural scenario. That's why the Canaanites are not savable as a result of choices made by their ancestors which have a permanent effect on them. The Bible said in this case the branch needs to be cut off and burnt. Again, this has nothing to do with the individual judgment which is not affected by the sins of the parents of an individual.

 

[TommySoda]

Ezekiel is referring to spiritual life and death.

“The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself. "But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:20-21‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“Again, when a wicked man turns away from his wickedness which he has committed and practices justice and righteousness, he will save his life. Because he considered and turned away from all his transgressions which he had committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right? "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct," declares the Lord GOD. "Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:27-30‬ ‭NASB

All men have sinned against God and will die a physical death. It is impossible for someone to “save their life” from physical death by obedience because man is incapable of perfect obedience. The only death a man can save himself from is the spiritual death that comes on judgement day in the lake of fire.

So your mixing up a passage pertaining to spiritual death with another pertaining to a physical death. The son will not receive a spiritual death because of the sins of his father.

Except every time the word "soul" is used in the Old Testament (nephesh) its used to refer to a body, creature, life or physical person. Theres no way it could be referring to the after life. I'm sure God didn't wasn't implying humans were living forever and nobody would die. However nobody would die an early death if they stopped being wicked hence why he says "But if a wicked person turns away from the wickedness they have committed and does what is just and right, they will save their life." Ezekiel 18:27.

They are apples and oranges.

1) judgment of children not depending on sins of parents
It's a judgment on an individual. In the scenario of David, the death of his son is a punishment to David but has nothing to do with the judgment of his son. David's son is saved if he belongs to God no matter what.

2) curse of children due to ancestors' sins
It's a cultural scenario. That's why the Canaanites are not savable as a result of choices made by their ancestors which have a permanent effect on them. The Bible said in this case the branch needs to be cut off and burnt. Again, this has nothing to do with the individual judgment which is not affected by the sins of the parents of an individual.

The death of his son is him receiving a penalty (punishment) for his fathers adultery. Yes David is also punished but punishment isn't mutually exclusive; it can effect multiple people. If David wouldn't of sin and conceived his baby the way he did; it would of lived.

 

[topher694]

Are you actually here for an answer or to argue?

He's gotten several good answers and continues to argue with each. I think we have the answer to your question. It appears the statement, "I've literally had nobody that was properly able to answer this." was disingenuous.

 

[TommySoda]

He's gotten several good answers and continues to argue with each. I think we have the answer to your question. It appears the statement, "I've literally had nobody that was properly able to answer this." was disingenuous.

Yes let's mindlessly believe everything we read on the internet without challenging it and trying to find a deeper meaning. Let's just believe everything despite the fact theres 5 different conclusions on here but who cares! They must all be right!

Are you actually here for an answer or to argue?

I'm for an accurate answer that makes sense; sorry you can't offer that.

 

[topher694]

Yes let's mindlessly believe everything we read on the internet without challenging it and trying to find a deeper meaning. Let's just believe everything despite the fact theres 5 different conclusions on here but who cares! They must all be right!


I'm for an accurate answer that makes sense; sorry you can't offer that.

Ok then, the problem is with everyone else... got it.

 

[Resha Caner]

I'm for an accurate answer that makes sense; sorry you can't offer that.

I haven't offered anything yet. My next question would be why you only quoted Ezekiel 18:20? The context of the chapter is important, wouldn't you agree?

Yes let's mindlessly believe everything we read on the internet without challenging it and trying to find a deeper meaning.

Some healthy skepticism is always good, but like all things it's fatal in large doses. Will you accept anything said here? If you reject everything on the Internet, there wasn't much point in asking the question.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I believe in the original sin.

So do I - the first one was "original" don'cha know!!

But what Adam did, only effected the environment (which was cursed for his sake). We all have the same human nature HE did, before he tossed God under the bus, and went with satan instead (just like we all did).

Adam's sin was NEVER mine, and Babies who've never sinned are totally innocent.

 

[Resha Caner]

Adam's sin was NEVER mine, and Babies who've never sinned are totally innocent.

Then they don't need Christ.

Either that, or 1 Corinthians 15:22 is true.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Then they don't need Christ.

Agreed - until they do - just like you, and me. SO - how do you propose to "save" babies (or aborted fetuses).

The Catholics invented Paedobaptism as their "solution" to a non-existent problem.

 

[Resha Caner]

Agreed - until they do - just like you, and me. SO - how do you propose to "save" babies (or aborted fetuses).

The Catholics invented Paedobaptism as their "solution" to a non-existent problem.

That's very sad. Never mind. Moving on.

 

[Sketcher]

That hair was too fine to split.

Why would that be?

 

[chilehed]

I've literally had nobody that was properly able to answer this.

One passage correctly speaks of how only the sinner bears the moral culpability of his sin. The other correctly speaks of how other people can suffer the temporal consequences of sin, even if they had no responsibility for committing it.

There is no contradiction.

 

[chilehed]

I've literally had nobody that was properly able to answer this.

One passage correctly speaks of how only the sinner bears the moral culpability for his sin. The other correctly speaks of how other people can suffer the temporal consequences of sin, even if they had no responsibility for committing it.

There is no contradiction.

 

[zoidar]

I've literally had nobody that was properly able to answer this.


In Ezekiel 18:20 it is quoted " The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them."

2 Samuel 12:10 however God directly kills David's son for his adultery and David's other children "Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own." and 2 Samuel 12:14 "But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for the LORD, the son born to you will die."

I would like to be able to explain this to you. Of course as been pointed out David was the one punished the worst for his child's death. To say that the child wasn't punished because he went straight to heaven, I don't know if it's a reasonable answer. When a child dies it's always a tragedy even we know they end up in heaven. So it seems to me both David and his son were punished because of David's grave sin, but to a different degree.

Maybe God let the natural cause take place, which was death in the case of this child. It may be that David's sin stopped God from intervening. God simply didn't listen to David's prayers for help.

To me even it seems like a contradiction, we know God isn't contradicting himself. Maybe Ezekiel 18:20 is a rule with exceptions? The right understanding of this is out there, at least God knows the answer.

I hope you aren't looking for a reason to not be a Christian, are you?

 

[JackRT]

One passage correctly speaks of how only the sinner bears the moral culpability for his sin. The other correctly speaks of how other people can suffer the temporal consequences of sin, even if they had no responsibility for committing it.

There is no contradiction.

You can say that again!

 

[TommySoda]

I would like to be able to explain this to you. Of course as been pointed out David was the one punished the worst for his child's death. To say that the child wasn't punished because he went straight to heaven, I don't know if it's a reasonable answer. When a child dies it's always a tragedy even we know they end up in heaven. So it seems to me both David and his son were punished because of David's grave sin, but to a different degree.

Maybe God let the natural cause take place, which was death in the case of this child. It may be that David's sin stopped God from intervening. God simply didn't listen to David's prayers for help.

To me even it seems like a contradiction, we know God isn't contradicting himself. Maybe Ezekiel 18:20 is a rule with exceptions? The right understanding of this is out there, at least God knows the answer.

I hope you aren't looking for a reason to not be a Christian, are you?

I am a Christian already I just never understood how Ezekiel exists (at least chapter 18) when the very thing he's saying doesn't happen did happen in the past.

 

[Ohj1n37]

" The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them."

Not sure if this was said, but I read an article that says the above scripture refers to the afterlife.

"Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own." and 2 Samuel 12:14 "But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for the LORD, the son born to you will die."

This refers to our life now. Also think about it. When parents make bad decisions are not their children often negatively impacted?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I've literally had nobody that was properly able to answer this.


In Ezekiel 18:20 it is quoted " The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them."

2 Samuel 12:10 however God directly kills David's son for his adultery and David's other children "Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own." and 2 Samuel 12:14 "But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for the LORD, the son born to you will die."

2 Samuel is speaking to a specific instance, and the Ezekiel passage is God responding to the proverb "the fathers ate sour grapes and the children's teeth are set on edge"

 

[Euodius]

Who suffers the consequence? David's child is whisked away to heaven, like so many infants, but David suffers grief. What of the 14,000 infants Herod killed? These Holy Infants have always been considered crowned martyrs in the highest courts of paradise!

Who is it - the King Jeroboam? He is punished by the death of an older child, but again the Lord saved the child from participating in the sins of his evil Father. Indeed, if the child had lived, the child would have fallen into perdition and would have gone to hell, but God saved the Child. In the Prologue of Ohrid this is a point of contemplation.

The answer to theodicy is that evil never has the final word. The final word is not always in this life. The one who sins always suffers the great consequence, but mercy is given to the victim.