I have a friend who struggles with the Idea of jesus being God. He understands salvation that Jesus came and gave his life for us and that through him is the only way to the father. Can he accept Christ as his Savior and yet deny his deity as God?
Can someone be saved and deny Jesus being God
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DaveKerwin
Represent the Most High
NO, Jesus being God is key. That is what the faith boils down to anyway. In order for Jesus to be Lord, he must be God.
If your friends wants to go to heaven, and wants a relationship with God, he must recognize that Jesus is who he claimed, and believe it!
If your friends wants to go to heaven, and wants a relationship with God, he must recognize that Jesus is who he claimed, and believe it!
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Zico
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110. Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'
111. "And behold! I inspired the disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Messenger. they said, 'We have faith, and do thou bear witness that we bow to Allah as Muslims'".
112. Behold! the disciples, said: "O Jesus the son of Mary! can thy Lord send down to us a table set (with viands) from heaven?" Said Jesus: "Fear Allah, if ye have faith."
113. They said: "We only wish to eat thereof and satisfy our hearts, and to know that thou hast indeed told us the truth; and that we ourselves may be witnesses to the miracle."
114. Said Jesus the son of Mary: "O Allah our Lord! Send us from heaven a table set (with viands), that there may be for us - for the first and the last of us - a solemn festival and a sign from thee; and provide for our sustenance, for thou art the best Sustainer (of our needs)."
115. Allah said: "I will send it down unto you: But if any of you after that resisteth faith, I will punish him with a penalty such as I have not inflicted on any one among all the peoples."
116. And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
The Noble Qur'an Surah 5 (The Table, The Table Spread)
111. "And behold! I inspired the disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Messenger. they said, 'We have faith, and do thou bear witness that we bow to Allah as Muslims'".
112. Behold! the disciples, said: "O Jesus the son of Mary! can thy Lord send down to us a table set (with viands) from heaven?" Said Jesus: "Fear Allah, if ye have faith."
113. They said: "We only wish to eat thereof and satisfy our hearts, and to know that thou hast indeed told us the truth; and that we ourselves may be witnesses to the miracle."
114. Said Jesus the son of Mary: "O Allah our Lord! Send us from heaven a table set (with viands), that there may be for us - for the first and the last of us - a solemn festival and a sign from thee; and provide for our sustenance, for thou art the best Sustainer (of our needs)."
115. Allah said: "I will send it down unto you: But if any of you after that resisteth faith, I will punish him with a penalty such as I have not inflicted on any one among all the peoples."
116. And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
The Noble Qur'an Surah 5 (The Table, The Table Spread)
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I'm afraid that is a topic that's debateable at the moment. There are Christians who do not accept Jesus as God per se, but Lord and Saviour nonetheless.
My own viewpoint is that Christ is Lord and Saviour, God due to His PERFECT REPRESENTATION, REFLECTION and SUMBMISSION TO THE WILL of God the Father.
In the bible, depending on your interpretation, one can interpret things both ways. The enigma here is that while Jesus seems comfortable with the prospect of people considering him God, and that verses that talks about God seems to be applicable to him as well, He has NEVER once introduced Himself as "God". Rather, from my understanding of the bible, He is such a *PERFECT* representation of God the Father (unlike even the prophets, who were good, but always born with sin, and perhaps do sin) that he do not deny being God, yet do not proclaim to be such.
Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Philippians 2:6 Who, being *in the form of God*, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: (Emphasis mine)
Note the words "in the form of God", rather than "being God".
That said, Who are we to judge and say we are right and others are wrong? (and thus who are saved, and who are not) There is but one Judge of our salvation, and it is God Almighty Himself.
May His Spirit lead you in understanding.
God bless.
My own viewpoint is that Christ is Lord and Saviour, God due to His PERFECT REPRESENTATION, REFLECTION and SUMBMISSION TO THE WILL of God the Father.
In the bible, depending on your interpretation, one can interpret things both ways. The enigma here is that while Jesus seems comfortable with the prospect of people considering him God, and that verses that talks about God seems to be applicable to him as well, He has NEVER once introduced Himself as "God". Rather, from my understanding of the bible, He is such a *PERFECT* representation of God the Father (unlike even the prophets, who were good, but always born with sin, and perhaps do sin) that he do not deny being God, yet do not proclaim to be such.
Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Philippians 2:6 Who, being *in the form of God*, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: (Emphasis mine)
Note the words "in the form of God", rather than "being God".
That said, Who are we to judge and say we are right and others are wrong? (and thus who are saved, and who are not) There is but one Judge of our salvation, and it is God Almighty Himself.
May His Spirit lead you in understanding.
God bless.
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If Jesus is not both fully God and fully man, he cannot be the Savior who reconciles man with God.
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Blessed-one
a long journey ahead
with God's help, things will get cleared up in time. We all stumble upon one point once awhile.
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LouisBooth
Well-Known Member
Personally I would say no. My thought is how can you love someone and obey them if you don't know who they are?
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It is clear in the book of Isaiah, that Jesus is God.
Isaiah 43:10 Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isaiah 43:11 I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no saviour.
So if Jesus isn't God, then He isn't the Savior. God said there is no other God besides Him and there is no other savior. So clearly Jesus is God.
Isaiah 43:10 Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isaiah 43:11 I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no saviour.
So if Jesus isn't God, then He isn't the Savior. God said there is no other God besides Him and there is no other savior. So clearly Jesus is God.
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Jesus is the Holy Spirit who is God who is Jesus who is the Holy Spirit who is God who is Jesus who is the Holy Spirit etc...I guess that tells you what I think...
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Thank you everyone for your input and I will continue to share the Truth with him. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God...And the Word became flesh... I will continue to check your responses so keep it up!!!
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I struggled with the idea of Jesus being God at first, too, because everything I had been taught was wrong. I had been taught that Jesus was an overbearing, legalistic, mean weakling, I didn't think that God would be like that.
So, when I started learning about God, I knew that I was a sinner who wanted a relationship with God, a sinner in need of salvation, but it was very hard for me to accept that Christ had anything to do with salvation.
Finally I said to God, "I don't know about the Jesus thing. I don't see how his death on the cross can mean anything, let alone make me worthy. But I have learned about you, and everything else you said about life in the Bible is true, so I'm going to trust you on the Jesus thing, too."
And God accounted this to me as righteousness. He didn't wait for me to understand everything and have all my questions answered. He saved me right then, and, over the last 13 years, we have been working out my knowledge and salvation ever since.
It can work that way for your friend, too. If he is willing to admit that he is a sinner who wants to be made worthy of a friendship with God, God will help him with all the other stuff.
So, when I started learning about God, I knew that I was a sinner who wanted a relationship with God, a sinner in need of salvation, but it was very hard for me to accept that Christ had anything to do with salvation.
Finally I said to God, "I don't know about the Jesus thing. I don't see how his death on the cross can mean anything, let alone make me worthy. But I have learned about you, and everything else you said about life in the Bible is true, so I'm going to trust you on the Jesus thing, too."
And God accounted this to me as righteousness. He didn't wait for me to understand everything and have all my questions answered. He saved me right then, and, over the last 13 years, we have been working out my knowledge and salvation ever since.
It can work that way for your friend, too. If he is willing to admit that he is a sinner who wants to be made worthy of a friendship with God, God will help him with all the other stuff.
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Auntie
THANK YOU JESUS!!
Very good post lambslove.
I was raised in a church that taught that Jesus was the Son of God. Since then, I have changed churches and learned that Jesus IS God. Believe me, it is very very hard to remove the teachings of childhood. When I pray, I always pray to God in the Name of Jesus. But sometimes I pray with Jesus in mind. If I am really hurting, my prayer becomes more of a "Dear Lord Jesus" kind of prayer. I understand that they are ONE, but sometimes it is difficult to think of it that way when I'm praying. Sometimes, it "feels" like I am leaving Jesus out of my prayer, although I know I'm not.
Ultimate, I would suggest that you have patience with your friend, and continue praying for him.
I was raised in a church that taught that Jesus was the Son of God. Since then, I have changed churches and learned that Jesus IS God. Believe me, it is very very hard to remove the teachings of childhood. When I pray, I always pray to God in the Name of Jesus. But sometimes I pray with Jesus in mind. If I am really hurting, my prayer becomes more of a "Dear Lord Jesus" kind of prayer. I understand that they are ONE, but sometimes it is difficult to think of it that way when I'm praying. Sometimes, it "feels" like I am leaving Jesus out of my prayer, although I know I'm not.
Ultimate, I would suggest that you have patience with your friend, and continue praying for him.
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OH, you wanted SCRIPTURES that refer to Jesus as GOD? How about Rev1:8 and 22:12-16 (read together)? Php2:5, Col2:9, Heb1:8 (GOD calls the Son, "GOD"!)
While you are in Hebrews, check out this "biggie": 6:19-7:3. OOPS---He has no MOTHER or FATHER or GENEALOGY or BEGINNING OF DAYS nor END OF LIFE. Only GOD fits that...
John20:28-29, 10:30 (one in ESSENCE), 8:58 (read 59 and take the JEWS' word for it---He WAS callin' Himself God!)
Many more (like when He accepted worship, said "_I_ will raise MYSELF up", "I forgive sins", (only GOD can forgive sins), etc.
Does your friend get confused on "firstborn" as the Jehovah's Witnesses do? "FIRSTBORN" is a TITLE. Esau was born first, Jacob became the firstborn. Same with Ephraim and Manessah. In Col1:15&18, Jesus has AUTHORITY over ALL CREATION, and AUTHORITY over even DEATH...
While you are in Hebrews, check out this "biggie": 6:19-7:3. OOPS---He has no MOTHER or FATHER or GENEALOGY or BEGINNING OF DAYS nor END OF LIFE. Only GOD fits that...
John20:28-29, 10:30 (one in ESSENCE), 8:58 (read 59 and take the JEWS' word for it---He WAS callin' Himself God!)
Many more (like when He accepted worship, said "_I_ will raise MYSELF up", "I forgive sins", (only GOD can forgive sins), etc.
Does your friend get confused on "firstborn" as the Jehovah's Witnesses do? "FIRSTBORN" is a TITLE. Esau was born first, Jacob became the firstborn. Same with Ephraim and Manessah. In Col1:15&18, Jesus has AUTHORITY over ALL CREATION, and AUTHORITY over even DEATH...
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Jesus was the god of the old testament , but he was still the son of God . Matthew 27 : 43 - 46 Eli , Eli , lama sabachthani .
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Guys (and Gals), I think we're straying from the topic again, which is about whether one "can be saved yet deny Jesus being God", not the very idea whether Christ is God or not...
There are other good threads for discussing that. Let's go return to the main point, shall we?
There are other good threads for discussing that. Let's go return to the main point, shall we?
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I know what you mean. When I was going through an especially painful loss, I could feel God next to me, weaping with me, telling me that although His will hadn't been carried out, He was going to make it come out for the best. That presence of God was probably the Holy Spirit, but for some reason, it "felt" like Jesus.
The "oneness thing" is amazing.
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