Can someone be a ____ and still a Christian?

[tworle00]

Can someone be a Socialist, Communist, or Fascist and still be a Christian? I mean can they be intellectually compatible? To me it reasons that some political ideologies would not line up with Christian moral and practice.

 

[sealacamp]

Can someone be a Socialist, Communist, or Fascist and still be a Christian? I mean can they be intellectually compatible? To me it reasons that some political ideologies would not line up with Christian moral and practice.

I would say no, although some of my friends who support government controlled everything, abortion, acceptance of all sorts of sinful behavior as "good and normal", think they are Christian and support these edicts. Frankly I believe they are deceived and in great need of prayer and Gods intervention.

Sealacamp

 

[desmalia]

Can someone be a Socialist, Communist, or Fascist and still be a Christian? I mean can they be intellectually compatible? To me it reasons that some political ideologies would not line up with Christian moral and practice.

Well there are two issues here pertaining to those political systems: the ideologies and the practices. A person could certainly be a Christian and (naively, I believe) support such ideologies in theory, and even in small ways in practice in their own countries because they may not recognize the direction it will take. But obviously no Christian is going to support a system of government that persecutes/murders Christians.

 

[Scottish Knight]

Can someone be a Socialist, Communist, or Fascist and still be a Christian? I mean can they be intellectually compatible? To me it reasons that some political ideologies would not line up with Christian moral and practice.

You get different kinds of communism and fascism - some are diammetrically opposed to Christianity and other forms not so. And yes, I think someone can be a Christian and hold one of these political views.

 

[Resha Caner]

Hmm. How come capitalism, democracy, etc. wasn't listed? Methinks there is a bias here.

Questions like this are works-based rather than faith-based. The question essentially asks: can someone sin and still be a Christian? The answer is yes. It doesn't mean God approves of what they are doing, but rather that he forgives them for what they are doing.

Since the list in the OP was essentially made of government/social organization ideologies, I think the question would be: what kind of "government" or social organization does God want? There are many scriptural passages related to that question, but one of the best comes when Israel asks Samuel for a king and he gives God's reply in I Samuel 8.

 

[General Mung Beans]

Yes. Although it is unlikely that a Christian will be a Marxist because Marxism demands materialism as one of its views.

 

[Resha Caner]

Yes. Although it is unlikely that a Christian will be a Marxist because Marxism demands materialism as one of its views.

Short answer: Agreed that many versions of Marxism have anti-Christian elements. But if the whole dialectical method appeals to people, they won't see that as a problem. Again, just because someone has a flaw doesn't mean they aren't Christian. What we see as unChristian in others is often an example of Matthew 7.

Long answer: Just to be clear, I am not a Marxist. But I did find my view of Marxism warped by the Reagan rhetoric of the 1980s. Marx was a smart guy. Had I not dismissed him because I associated him with the Soviets, I actually would have been swayed by his arguments - at least a few years ago I would have. IMO his fault is the same as many intellectuals of that time. He was caught up in the 19th century love of science and its success. He expected human wisdom to find an answer to the world's problems.

Marxism comes in many forms. Are you aware of the "liberation theology" that was popular among the RC priesthood in Central America for a time? Again, on the surface it sounded good. And it might not have been a bad idea were it not for its humanist roots.

As far as your comment on "materialism" goes, I assume you mean dialectical materialism. Again, only one of many interpretations of Marx. As a logical construct, I don't see the problem with it. The idea has its merits. The "materialism" spoken of here is not the Christian theological meaning of the word. It's not about a love of things (i.e., the mammon of the Bible). Rather, it's the idea that society is driven by a need for material. I think that is largely true. People need food, clothing, and shelter. God has never told us to deny those needs.

 

[tworle00]

Hmm. How come capitalism, democracy, etc. wasn't listed? Methinks there is a bias here.

Questions like this are works-based rather than faith-based. The question essentially asks: can someone sin and still be a Christian? The answer is yes. It doesn't mean God approves of what they are doing, but rather that he forgives them for what they are doing.

Since the list in the OP was essentially made of government/social organization ideologies, I think the question would be: what kind of "government" or social organization does God want? There are many scriptural passages related to that question, but one of the best comes when Israel asks Samuel for a king and he gives God's reply in I Samuel 8.

I phrased it like I did because this is the "Conservative Christian" part of the forums, but yeah I'm seriously biased. Personally I've never met a Christian that held to Marxist, Socialist, etc views that wasn't either ignoring the evils those political ideologies have spread or spent a semester in a couple liberal college courses and turned into political know it alls. Thats why I ask the question on here though. I wanted to see what others experiences have been like specifically concerning those forms of government/economic systems.

 

[MrJim]

Christians of all walks tend to be faithful in spite of the gov't system they live under. "In the world but not of it" calls us to be ambassadors and citizens of the Kingdom of God; we are aliens and guests to those not of the Kingdom.

 

[Randy_R]

I would say no, although some of my friends who support government controlled everything, abortion, acceptance of all sorts of sinful behavior as "good and normal", think they are Christian and support these edicts. Frankly I believe they are deceived and in great need of prayer and Gods intervention.

Sealacamp

Of course they can't. Heaven is just an eternal Republican convention. The only reason they let Democrats in is to wait tables.

But seriously, no political system is wholly good or bad. Each one can only be applauded in so far as they support religious freedom (Christian and non-Christian religions alike), and only as far as they help the poor and needy and support equal rights of all people regardless or gender, race or sexual orientation. To the degree that they create a massive gap between the rich and the poor, keep people from basic human rights, and wage expansionist wars that cause civilian deaths in the hundreds of thousands (and see them as acceptable losses), to that degree they should be condemned by all conscientious people, whether they are Christian or not.

 

[Resha Caner]

I phrased it like I did because this is the "Conservative Christian" part of the forums, but yeah I'm seriously biased. Personally I've never met a Christian that held to Marxist, Socialist, etc views that wasn't either ignoring the evils those political ideologies have spread or spent a semester in a couple liberal college courses and turned into political know it alls. Thats why I ask the question on here though. I wanted to see what others experiences have been like specifically concerning those forms of government/economic systems.

Ever read Tocqueville? It's not a book for the faint of heart, but if you like the deep stuff it is an excellent tome on democratic vs. more authoritarian government. In all honesty, I would expect "conservative" Christians to have more of a bent toward a benevolent, somewhat theocratic, constitutional monarchy. To me it is somewhat a revelation of the brainwashing that has occurred that capitalist democracies always rise to the top as the "best" form of government.

But, in the end, as another poster noted, all government based in man will have it's flaws. One of the difficulties was revealed by another post in this thread - a concern voiced by Theodore Roosevelt about the challenge of balancing the arrogance of the "haves" against the jealousy of the "have-nots".

 

[General Mung Beans]

Related question: Can a Christian commit any sort of sin? For instance can a Christian beat up someone or commit adultery or even rape or murder? Whatever sin they commit if they're continuously unrepentent and commit it over and over again I'd say they aren't Christian but suppose they had a mental illness or did one of the heinous sin once and was immediately repentent of it...?

Also by "materialism" I meant disbelief in the supernatural rather than the more common meaning of "love of material things".

 

[Resha Caner]

Related question: Can a Christian commit any sort of sin? For instance can a Christian beat up someone or commit adultery or even rape or murder? Whatever sin they commit if they're continuously unrepentent and commit it over and over again I'd say they aren't Christian but suppose they had a mental illness or did one of the heinous sin once and was immediately repentent of it...?

There is only one unforgivable sin - the rejection of God's saving grace. The usefulness of works is a means to reveal to we finite mortals the heart of others. If someone is a serial killer I would be very concerned for their eternal fate (though I would actually be more concerned about protecting innocent people from their sickness).

But I am not allowed to judge even a serial killer (judge in that I would declare they are not a Christian, the implication being that they are damned). Only God can judge - and he does judge murder through his Word. There does come a time when we shake the dust off our feet and move on, but that is still not a judgement. There also comes a time when we must restrain the evil of others. But I will never so belittle God as to declare he cannot change someone's heart.

You want to hear something wierd ... because of a dream I had, I have been praying for Osama bin Laden since 1998 ... praying that he would become the Paul of the Arabs. Granted, my faithfulness to that prayer has seriously waned over time, but that is a weakness in me, not God. The point is: consider what bin Laden's conversion would mean. I think it would mean much more than capturing and executing him - even though that is what he deserves.

Also by "materialism" I meant disbelief in the supernatural rather than the more common meaning of "love of material things".

Ah, OK. I would call that "physicalism," and it is not a tenet of all branches of Marxism. "Marxism" is a funny thing. Marx didn't invent socialist ideologies. It was a popular idea with many of his era. And during his era there were other socialists who had a huge influence - people such as Bakunin who now seem to be largely forgotten. Since Marx became the prophet of socialism, people were constantly trying to coopt his name for their own purposes (the way many sects do the same with Christ). Even during his lifetime he got frustrated with people petitioning him to sanction their rebellion as the the true Marxist cause. The one I remember that really peeved him was Russia.

FYI, I have a degree in history. Love this stuff.

 

[BlackSabb]

You get different kinds of communism and fascism - some are diammetrically opposed to Christianity and other forms not so. And yes, I think someone can be a Christian and hold one of these political views.

This is so very true. Spanish and Italian fascists in WW2 were very pro Catholic. German fascists were anti Catholic. To be a member of the KKK, you have to profess Christianity.

Regardless of how skewed you believe all this is, there are people who are both Christian believers and extreme political ideological proponents.

 

[sealacamp]

But seriously, no political system is wholly good or bad.

A political system that endorses murder, upholds the virtues of corruption, stands on what is wrong and insists that it is right and then tries to force everyone to agree with threat of penalty is wholly bad, evil, no good, terrible, against all that is good. That is the truth now you just live with it. As for who will be in heaven only God knows who they will be and I doubt that there will be any party lines to draw there so what in the heck are you talking about? Are you trying to legitimize the illegitimate? Good luck with that.

Regardless of how skewed you believe all this is, there are people who are both Christian believers and extreme political ideological proponents.

Quite true. Last week a friend of mine was telling me that there is nothing more Christian than following the teachings of Karl Marx. I almost fell out of my chair. But as you say there are people that have these political positions that believe they are following Christ.

Sealacamp

 

[Hishandmaiden]

I think that is is possible for christians to exist under socialist, communist state etc. However, when a christian matures, he or she will put God above any human governing system, including democracy.

Democracy might look harmless on the exterior, but it reality, democracy means supporting individual's rights to do anything, and that includes abortion, which is against God's laws.

 

[General Mung Beans]

I think that is is possible for christians to exist under socialist, communist state etc. However, when a christian matures, he or she will put God above any human governing system, including democracy.

Democracy might look harmless on the exterior, but it reality, democracy means supporting individual's rights to do anything, and that includes abortion, which is against God's laws.

On the contrary, responsible democracy is not just mob rule and also protects individual rights.

 

[cavitebeliever]

I would say a growing Christian would not remain a part of clearly anti-Christian form of government. As we conform to the image of Christ, we should be taking some stands as a result of growing convictions. Beyond that, there are more people professing than possessing, more make believers than believers. You can call yourself anything that you choose to, but your words are validated by your life. There should be change, initially and continuously. 2 Cor. 5:17

 

[christiansocialist7]

Socialism does not deny a God, it puts less emphasis on the desire for wealth and more about moving forward as a community. I would argue that the capitalist "American Dream" of true class mobility has put far too much emphasis on gaining wealth, wealth should not be something we desire. Socialism is HIGHLY compatable with Christianity. It caters for the poorest in society through a welfare state and gives everyone equal access to public service.

Fascism however can often conflict with Christianity, fascism sets one race of people as being more important than others. It does not regard every man as equal and doesn't witness love.

Marxist communism denies a god, Marx himself called religion 'the opium of the masses'. But some marxist principles are highly compatable with Christianity, "for each man's means to meet his needs" implies an irradication of wealth and class.

 

[cavitebeliever]

Communism and Democracy are government systems. Socialism and Capitalism are economic systems. Islam and Hinduism are religions. Do not mix apples with oranges. Government economic and world religions systems have some good. True Christianity is rooted in a personal relationship with God through the redemption provided by the ever living, exalted Savior, Jesus Christ. Religion is man's attempt to reach God. Jesus Christ is God's method of reaching man. To compare government, economic and other religions to the eternally transforming work of Jesus Christ is an exercise in futility.