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CAN sickness glorify God?

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TreeOfLife

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I've noticed over the course of the last month or so that my understanding about healing is changing.


I'm not to the point of fully grasping it yet, but there is something about the fact that everytime God heals it is like a slap in the face of the devil and all glory goes to God yet once again. It's very similar to the fact that we are saved entirely to God's glory.
 
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LeeS

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Evee said:
I will agree with this.. our healing is not always activated as I have said from the beginning.
I was in the WOF movement for a lot of years.
I never doubt God's power even though some may think so.
So of course you are not upsetting me.

Maybe I'm being a stickler on words here but I believe according to His Word that we all ARE healed and that all our healing IS activated. However, for whatever reason, WE do not manifest it. It is my opinion that HE has done ALL He needs to do. The healing is there, it's activated. It's our manafesting it that is the issue.
 
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Strong in Him

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That's true, TOL, but I also believe that every time someone praises, serves and loves God IN the very illnesses that the devil sent to destroy us, this is also a slap in the face to him too.

Maybe a bit like a man who choses to dump his girlfriend, thinking that she'll beg him to come back, or to prove that she can't last long without him, and the woman retaliates by becoming more independant, losing weight, glamming herself up, or changing her job and basically showing him that life goes on and she doesn't need him after all. He then has to cope with seeing her around, enjoying her new life. (Not the best example, but the only one that came to mind.)
 
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TreeOfLife

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Do I detect a little "edge" in your example?
 
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justinstout

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oworm said:
Why was the man born blind?


I know you're trying to prove that God caused this man to be born blind. But Jesus did not tell us exactly why, so that's why we believe that he was born blind because he was born into a fallen world where things like that tend to happen. Could this be God's fault? Well, only if you blame Him for Adam's sin. Is that what you believe since "everything that happens is God's will" ?
 
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LeeS

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Praising God IN one's sickness and praising God FOR one's sickness are two different things. We are to rejoice IN the Lord ALWAYS. However since God did NOT make sickness He cannot be praised FOR it but IN it. We praise Him for His worthiness of praise not for what does and does not fall on us. God gets glory from our praise and continued steadfastness despite our circumstances. God gets glory when He shines through the circumstances and delivers us. Sickness is NOT praiseworthy, only God is.
 
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JimB

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If God does not cause sickness even to those in covenant with Him, as you have stated over-and-over, how do you explain the following scriptures which show that God does, indeed, cause illness, pestilence, disease?:
‘Now see that I, even I, am He,And there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand. (Deuteronomy 32)

14 ‘But if you do not obey Me, and do not observe all these commandments, 15 and if you despise My statutes, or if your soul abhors My judgments, so that you do not perform all My commandments, but break My covenant, 16 I also will do this to you: I will even appoint terror over you, wasting disease and fever which shall consume the eyes and cause sorrow of heart.
(Leviticus 26)


12 And a letter came to him from Elijah the prophet . . . 14 Behold, the LORD will strike your people with a serious affliction — your children, your wives, and all your possessions; 15 and you will become very sick with a disease of your intestines, until your intestines come out by reason of the sickness, day by day. (2 Chronicles 21)

19 “I send a pestilence into that land and pour out My fury on it in blood, and cut off from it man and beast, 20 even though Noah, Daniel, and Job were in it, as I live,” says the Lord GOD, “they would deliver neither son nor daughter; they would deliver only themselves by their righteousness.” 21 For thus says the Lord GOD: “How much more it shall be when I send My four severe judgments on Jerusalem—the sword and famine and wild beasts and pestilence—to cut off man and beast from it? (Ezekiel 14)

 
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JimB

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Maybe, but it seems that David praised the Lord for His affliction because it brought him to obedience: “Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I keep Your word” Psalm 119.67.

~Jim
 
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Evee

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I just sent a donation to ST judes hospital for cancer research.
Why are these little innocent children still sick.
I know everything goes back to Adam but if we are healed then why isn't it true.
Do many people have the wrong code?
Tell a mother that is sitting up day and night her child is healed of Cancer.
Go empty a few hospitals and pray for their healing and then claim it.
Some would get healed. What about the rest would they have the symptoms.
Oh back again God can be glorified in every circumstance of our lives.
 
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justinstout

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Yes, God is able to be glorified in every circumstance. But is it the circumstance that glorifies God or is it the attitude of the person that glorifies Him?


Does sickness glorify God?

In some peoples' minds.. yes.

According to Scripture.. NO!
 
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justinstout

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Jim M said:
Maybe, but it seems that David praised the Lord for His affliction because it brought him to obedience: “Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I keep Your word” Psalm 119.67.

~Jim

It's always about the way it "seems" to you isn't it? lol.

It's a fact to me that David lived under the Old Covenant. It's a fact to me that David was spiritually dead. It's also a fact to me that I am not spiritually dead and God does not need to "afflict" me or "allow" me to be afflicted so that He can "keep me in line". If you need sickness and disease to keep you "close to God", then knock yourself out, bro.. but that's not God's plan or God's will.
 
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LeeS

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Evee said:
I just sent a donation to ST judes hospital for cancer research.
Why are these little innocent children still sick. I know everything goes back to Adam but if we are healed then why isn't it true.

Evee, it seems that I have not clarified myself very well. The innocent reaping the sins of those who've gone before them has been since Adam sinned. Abel was innoncent and died for the sins of his brother who was full of pride. I do not claim to know "why" only that it "happens". And it's not God who did it. It's the enemy's fault, kick him in the head instead.

In the spiritual our healing HAS happened. As to what the issue is with the physical, I don't know. There are many varying issues at fault but the bottom line is still that God did not take His finger and say "you are sick, you are not, you are sick, you are not"

Evee said:
Do many people have the wrong code?

Well, that could be one way of putting it.

Evee said:
Tell a mother that is sitting up day and night her child is healed of Cancer.

So, which one do we call the liar? God or the cancer? We do not deny the cancer being there but we deny its right to be there. We do not deny that we are "feeling" sick but we also do not deny that God says "I AM HEALED".

Evee said:
Go empty a few hospitals and pray for their healing and then claim it. Some would get healed. What about the rest would they have the symptoms.

Even Jesus, here on earth did not do that. In no way am I claiming that everytime we pray for the sick all symptoms will cease and manifestation of healing is immediate. Sometimes it is and sometimes it's not. Does that mean that I don't pray? Does that mean that God's word is a lie because the manifestation is slow? What about if I die? Did God lie or was it something else? What the something else is I don't know and I don't claim to know. What I do know is that "by His stripes I AM healed. It does not matter what the manifestation says. If it's saying something different from what God's Word says then it (the manifestation) is the liar...not God.
Evee said:
Oh back again God can be glorified in every circumstance of our lives.

Thats exactly what I said. WE can glorify God IN every circustance. But circumstances can do no glorifying on their own. Circumstances have no voice to glorify God. It's people who do that.
 
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LeeS

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Jim M said:
Maybe, but it seems that David praised the Lord for His affliction because it brought him to obedience: “Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I keep Your word” Psalm 119.67.

~Jim




And why does it say these pestilences and diseases happened? In the scriptures referenced it was disobedience.

God made it very clear in His Word what disobedience to His Word would bring. What goes up, must come down. What we sow we reap. If we sow disobedience, we will reap what disobedience is commissioned to bring. Is that God who brings it then, or our disobedience?
 
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JimB

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Then wouldn’t you have to admit that God can allow, even cause sickness (either way God is responsible for it) in the life of a believer if it is for the purpose of discipline?

~Jim

 
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JimB

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Funny, when I/we quote a text out of the OT it is null-and-void because it is part of the “Old Covenant” but it is permissible for you to quote OT verses as proof-texts for your views on healing and prosperity. Let’s be fair.

~Jim



 
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Seaioth

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All things both bad and good, God uses in the end for His glory... because God is in total control. That is not to say that one should use this knowledge as abuse to grace. The question is truly not whether sickness can glorify God, but rather the true question deals with the attributes of God. His absolute sovereignty and grace.

Consider Paul's thorn in his flesh, which he prayed time and time again for God to remove. A thorn inflicted by messager of Satan. Let God did not respond, because it was best for Paul to have that thorn, whatever it was so in His weakness he would constantly recognize the Lord as His strength, though Satan meant it for harm, God permitted used it for His glory, for the sake of Paul's sanctification and for His own glory. Also consider Job and also the word's of Christ. All who desire to live godly lives must suffer for the sake of the cross. This includes sickness (physical afflications)... among the other givens. Nebachnezzar(sp?) became prideful and then God made him go insane, with the "dew of the heaven" for seven years until he repented. God exercises all things for His glory.

2 Cor. 12:7-10

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God." --Rom. 8:28


Keep in mind God's immutable characteristics when constrating the Old and New Covenant...

We ought pray according to the Lord's will and not in this overconfidence, that according to His promises he must heal us right away... almost demanding tone for God to heal us for whatever afflictions we may have. Rather exalt Him for who He is, and don't always expect God to cure you of all your ailments. It is part of God's sanctificying work of you that one perseveres through their trials for His glory. Give thanks to God in all circumstances for God's will is for our holiness not our personal comfort and happiness in what comes from circumstances...
 
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justinstout

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I don't think you've read many of the other posts on here.

Should I now totally debunk the wretched theory of Paul's thorn being a sickness or disease?

Seaioth, if you need me to do so I will.

If not, then please provide some other Scriptures (other than just one that's poorly interpreted) to show that our suffering as Christians is supposed to include sickness or disease.
Please show me where it was presented as God's will in the New Testament. Show me where Jesus or any of the apostles claim that God received glory from sickness or disease. Always please show me where the kingdom of God was advanced (or where anything was gained for that matter) through someone suffering from sickness and disease.

Our suffering as a believer is persecution and it comes as a result of preaching the Gospel and living godly in Christ. You can't prove otherwise.

What kind of a God would expect us to suffer what Jesus Christ suffered for us at Calvary? Should we also suffer sin for "Christ's sake" ???

.
 
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