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This is what I find sad. You couldn't have learned this any other way? Are you sure? I sure did. I didn't need allergies to show me the unconditional love of the Father. I've felt and known the unconditional love of the Father from the time I was very young. I never said I was perfect and that God couldn't teach me anything, but God doesn't need to use an illness to teach me something. I'm listening to Him, right now, every day, to hear what He will say to me. He doesn't need to strike me to get my attention.
probinson said:This is what I find sad. You couldn't have learned this any other way? Are you sure? I sure did. I didn't need allergies to show me the unconditional love of the Father. I've felt and known the unconditional love of the Father from the time I was very young. I never said I was perfect and that God couldn't teach me anything, but God doesn't need to use an illness to teach me something. I'm listening to Him, right now, every day, to hear what He will say to me. He doesn't need to strike me to get my attention.
Jim M said:Tragically, when PHIAers are sick, they will allow only one avenue through which God can work healing and are blind to anything else God might say or do through the course of an illness. Thats the danger of the PHIA doctrine and why I resist it.
See what I mean.probinson said:[/size][/font][/color]
Tragically? Danger? Huh? This is such a load of nonsense, I don't even know where to start.
God can use me when I'm sick. God can teach me things when I'm sick. God doesn't need to use that sickness for that purpose. I can just as easily hear what God is saying to me without having to be inflicted with some illness or disease. I can hear and see what God is doing even when I'm sick, not BECAUSE I'm sick. You make it sound like PHIA'ers focus only on their sickness and nothing else if they get sick. Baloney. I hear God and am used of God even if I don't feel well. I said it before and I'll say it again. I praise God in every circumstance, not for every circumstance.
Tragically, when someone who rejects that healing was provided for at the cross goes to the doctor and they tell them there's nothing more they can do for them and they're going to die, they die unnecessarily. Sure, that person is no longer suffering and is now in a much better place, but they can no longer preach the gospel. They can no longer help the poor. They can no longer do anything for the Kingdom. That's the danger of your doctrine and why I resist it.
probinson said:Tragically, when someone who rejects that healing was provided for at the cross goes to the doctor and they tell them there's nothing more they can do for them and they're going to die, they die unnecessarily. Sure, that person is no longer suffering and is now in a much better place, but they can no longer preach the gospel. They can no longer help the poor. They can no longer do anything for the Kingdom. That's the danger of your doctrine and why I resist it.
oworm said:Whats PHIA ?
Jim M said:Unfortunately, a doctrine that equates sickness with sin does not allow its advocates, despite the mass of scriptures to the contrary, to see how God can use illness to discipline and refine believers and, in effect, ties the hands of the Almighty (which is technically impossible, of course) and paint themselves into a corner where, sadly, they will remain unaware of this aspect of Gods dealings with His creation and (excuse the mixed metaphors) puts on theological blinders that keeps them in the dark and unawareness - concerning how God really deals with us.
Tragically, when PHIAers are sick, they will allow only one avenue through which God can work healing and are blind to anything else God might say or do through the course of an illness. Thats the danger of the PHIA doctrine and why I resist it.
The LORD will strengthen him on his bed of illness; You will sustain him on his sickbed. Psalm 41.3
Does God heal? Of course. Does He heal according to the PHIA formula? Well, sometimes. But He is bigger than a formula.
~Jim
It is statements like this claiming that your doctrine is the Word of God and therefore cannot be interpreted in any other way than you interpret it that makes these discussions difficult.LeeS said:These statements about the faith of others is untrue. You don't know peoples hearts. Nor do you know what they do or do not do if they experience a sickness. You may have come across a few who really do live according to the above statements but on the whole it does not describe what I've experienced or seen or read or heard. There is no PHIA formula but there is the WORD OF GOD which is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
True. But when you're going under for the third time, that's not the time to learn how to swim.Strong in Him said:Not necessarily, the Lord can and does work miracles, and can and does heal even if the sick person has never heard of PHIA. Just because a doctor says that medically they can do no more for someone, doesn't mean the sick person will give up and die; they may decide to seek the Lord instead.
Jim M said:It is statements like this claiming that your doctrine is the Word of God and therefore cannot be interpreted in any other way than you interpret it that makes these discussions difficult.
Maybe I have generalized too muchbut I feel I am echoing what I have read on posts in these threads. I will accept your statement that the shoe does not fit you, but, with all respect, I certainly do not think you have a corner on the Word of God or how it is to be rightly divided.
But then thats JMO.
~Jim
Jim M said:It is statements like this claiming that your doctrine is the Word of God and therefore cannot be interpreted in any other way than you interpret it that makes these discussions difficult.
Maybe I have generalized too muchbut I feel I am echoing what I have read on posts in these threads. I will accept your statement that the shoe does not fit you, but, with all respect, I certainly do not think you have a corner on the Word of God or how it is to be rightly divided.
But then thats JMO.
~Jim
Jim M said:Dids, Do you think it is possible for a person to believe for something that is totally contrary to Gods will? This is where I may not be clear on what you are saying.
For the record, I not only believe it is possible I think it happens all the time.
~Jim
Good point, Franky. I guess we pick the translation that best suits us. But I will accept your version. Here are all the translations of Psalm 41.3-4 at Biblbegateway.com (list A-Z order to avoid favoritism). Take your pick.franky67 said:Hi Jim,
That quote you gave from Psalms 41:3 a while back, Here is the wording in the Hebrew bible,
"The Lord will preserve him, and keep him alive, he is called happy on the earth, and You will not deliver him to the will of his enemies."
The verse 4 reads,
"The Lord will strengthen him on his sickbed, whenever he is prostrate, You will heal all his illnesses."
God Bless
Franky
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