Can Salvation be lost?

BNR32FAN said:

Nice cop out. If you can’t answer the questions then you can’t prove your point. You know that the apostles could not do the will of God and they could not please God if they were of the flesh. They were not hostile towards God.

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They had unbelief, and that does not please God..


Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

BNR32FAN said:

You seem to have forgotten about verse 4.

“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Abide means remain. So evidently His audience here are already in Him and He is already in them before He was crucified and resurrected.

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If one isn’t abiding, how can one be cut off?

prophecy_uk said:

All need Christs Spirit, to stop the wrong they were doing, like this...


Matthew 17:16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

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The apostles had already stopped the wrong they were doing hence “they are not of this world”.

Hammster said:

If one isn’t abiding, how can one be cut off?

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Good point

prophecy_uk said:

Then they transformed, by the Spirit which gives another they lacked, the mind of Christ( not forgetting without the Spirit they are NONE OF HIS..


Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

1 Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

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“You are My friends if you do what I command you. No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. This I command you, that you love one another. “If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:14-19‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So your saying they don’t have the mind of Christ but Christ said He has made all things that He has heard from The Father known to them. You say they are not His yet He calls them friends. He specifically said they were given to Him by The Father and they belong to both Him and The Father.

““I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You; for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me. I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours; and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them. I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:6-11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

There’s only two sides of the fence. Either a person is of the world and the flesh or they are of the Spirit. People who are not of the world are not of the flesh they are of the Spirit. You won’t admit that because when you first came in here you were too arrogant in your post and now you don’t have the humility and honesty within you to swallow your pride and admit you made a mistake. We’re all Christians here we can easily forgive and forget but only if the person repents.

prophecy_uk said:

Then why not show what is a teaching in the bible, maybe it is to lay our lives down for Christ, for the Gospel and for others, and everybody who does not do that, cant save what is not lost..




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Salvation can be lost. The writer of Hebrews includes himself in the following Passage. How do we know? Because of the use of the word "we" in verse 26. In other words the writer thought that if He was sinning willingly he would have no more sacrifice for sins accredited to him. Only a certain fearful looking forward to judgement and fiery indignation which would destroy the adversary, they that are sinning willingly.

Heb 10:26 For if we are sinning willingly after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

BNR32FAN said:

The apostles had already stopped the wrong they were doing hence “they are not of this world”.

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Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

BNR32FAN said:

Then you obviously don’t know much about these men during Jesus’ ministry. They failed to perform that one exorcism yes, but they had already performed many miracles before that.

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They lacked faith ( because we all need the faith of Christ )



John 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.


Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

BNR32FAN said:

So your saying they don’t have the mind of Christ but Christ said He has made all things that He has heard from The Father known to them. You say they are not His yet He calls them friends. He specifically said they were given to Him by The Father and they belong to both Him and The Father.



There’s only two sides of the fence. Either a person is of the world and the flesh or they are of the Spirit. People who are not of the world are not of the flesh they are of the Spirit. .

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They forgot all, that is why the Spirit needed to be released to be given into them so all is brought to their remembrance and TEACHES THEM ALL THINGS..


John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.



Nobody can be of the Spirit until it is given when Jesus was glorified..


John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Hammster said:

If one isn’t abiding, how can one be cut off?

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When we abide, we can be cut off.


How can you abide in Christ until Christ is known only by the Spirit now, they knew Him once in the flesh but now no more.

It is also testified all were dead ( then you deny the disciples were all dead until Christ rose from the dead ?)


2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

HIM said:

Salvation can be lost. The writer of Hebrews includes himself in the following Passage. How do we know? Because of the use of the word "we" in verse 26. In other words the writer thought that if He was sinning willingly he would have no more sacrifice for sins accredited to him. Only a certain fearful looking forward to judgement and fiery indignation which would destroy the adversary, they that are sinning willingly.

Heb 10:26 For if we are sinning willingly after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

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Apostle Paul speaks to us now, as a we ( for all live unto God)


It makes little sense to say that the writer can be cut off.


2000 years later, and on top of salvation being lost, it needs to be found first, and disputing is not a way to find it. ( especially for vanity sake)

prophecy_uk said:

When we abide, we can be cut off.


How can you abide in Christ until Christ is known only by the Spirit now, they knew Him once in the flesh but now no more.

It is also testified all were dead ( then you deny the disciples were all dead until Christ rose from the dead ?)


2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

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That wasn’t my question.

Hammster said:

That wasn’t my question.

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But it was your answer.


Here is more showing the disciples only had pride, no Holy Spirit of meekness yet..


Luke 9:46 Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest.
47 And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a child, and set him by him,
48 And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.

prophecy_uk said:

But it was your answer.


Here is more showing the disciples only had pride, no Holy Spirit of meekness yet..


Luke 9:46 Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest.
47 And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a child, and set him by him,
48 And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.

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It’s not an answer to my question. Try answering my question instead of one that you want to answer.

The Gospel also is for the future sheep, they hear this message of being in the vine and understand that occured when Jesus gave the Holy Spirit, for us all to be one in Him, nothing perfect came before then..


John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


Here is the question for you guys, in your own minds, Jesus had to sanctify Himself, for the disciples sakes, and to make all perfect in one, Him in them and them in Him.


Do you think they are in Him ( Christ) already and perfect ( the disciples with Jesus) or they needed the death and rising of Christ?



John 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.




Jesus became High Priest, by replacing the old covenant that brought death which then brings us near to Christ to make them perfect....


Hebrews 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.


This man ( Jesus Christ) offered Himself as sacrifice, and by that one offering He perfected for ever them that are sanctified ( Jesus sanctified Himself in the death of the cross to sanctify the disciples)


Do you say that the disciples were sanctified before Christ was dead and risen ?

It makes no sense if you say yes.

As Jesus first had to be sanctified, then to sanctify the disciples through the truth ( through the Spirit of truth then given to them) and the one offering HE PERFECTS FOREVER THEM THAT ARE SANCTIFIED..


Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

John 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.




This gives the new covenant, ( Christ had to do this to take the curse away which the disciples were still under as it is only nailed on His cross.)

Jesus then by giving the living Holy Spirit of Christ into all ( only after He died and rose) gives all then the new living way, this is by the blood of Jesus, and without shedding of blood here is no remission, and then no faith even for the disciples of Christ but we receive the promise of the Spirit through faith ( the faith of Christ to die for us which through the faith of Christ we believe in that righteousness of God)..



Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;


Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Hammster said:

It’s not an answer to my question. Try answering my question instead of one that you want to answer.

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Bnrfan asked me many questions, I answered him, and I answered you.

Now I have asked something, if you do not want to answer, that is fine, lets go with your version of equality.

prophecy_uk said:

Bnrfan asked me many questions, I answered him, and I answered you.

Now I have asked something, if you do not want to answer, that is fine, lets go with your version of equality.

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You didn’t answer me. You quoted my post and then said stuff. Your post was not an answer to my question.

prophecy_uk said:

Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

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Yeah Peter didn’t understand at that time that the Son of God must suffer and die in order to do the will of The Father. His statement there was out of compassion towards Christ and misunderstanding of the purpose of Christ’s suffering. Jesus hadn’t revealed to them the purpose of His suffering at that time. Peter wasn’t perfect after receiving the Holy Spirit either, no one is, which is why Paul rebuked him in Antioch for stumbling while the Jews were present by refraining from eating with the Gentiles.

prophecy_uk said:

They lacked faith ( because we all need the faith of Christ )



John 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.


Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

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Thomas doubted. Again they didn’t understand what Jesus meant when He said “destroy this temple and I will raise it in 3 days”. They didn’t know that He was going to be resurrected because it was not clearly told to them.

prophecy_uk said:

They forgot all, that is why the Spirit needed to be released to be given into them so all is brought to their remembrance and TEACHES THEM ALL THINGS..


John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.



Nobody can be of the Spirit until it is given when Jesus was glorified..


John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

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And even after the Holy Spirit was given people still didn’t understand “all things”. Paul had to rebuke Peter in Antioch, the Galatians were stumbling in Judaism, the Corinthians were still fleshly and boastful of sin. No one is perfect neither before or after receiving the Holy Spirit except Christ Himself.