Can Salvation be lost?

[BNR32FAN]

Nobody is in Christ until Christ is in us, and Christ is cut off and restored, and restores us to God, and if we do not cut off our life, we follow our own way instead

You’ll have to forgive me if I take Christ’s word for it over your’s. When He specifically says someone is in Him, I have a tendency to believe Him.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Nobody is in Christ until Christ is in us, and Christ is cut off and restored, and restores us to God, and if we do not cut off our life, we follow our own way instead

You seem to have forgotten about verse 4.

“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Abide means remain. So evidently His audience here are already in Him and He is already in them before He was crucified and resurrected.

 

[prophecy_uk]

You seem to have forgotten about verse 4.

“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Abide means remain. So evidently His audience here are already in Him and He is already in them before He was crucified and resurrected.

You forget that they cant abide in Him, until they have abided and waited for power on high..



Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

 

[prophecy_uk]

Abide means remain. So evidently His audience here are already in Him and He is already in them before He was crucified and resurrected.

No, it is told opposite to your opposing words..


John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.


John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.


John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

 

[prophecy_uk]

You state, against the faith, that they already abide in Him, yet the Spirit is given to them ( to abide in them and them in Him then) when Christ is crucified and risen and glorified.

Just let me know how much of Gods sword you want to oppose, I will show you all you speak as I have done to all on this forum so far.



John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

 

[BNR32FAN]

No, it is told opposite to your opposing words..


John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.


John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.


John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

They didn’t need the Holy Spirit while He was with them, they were already Spiritually discerned by Christ’s words.

““I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You; for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me. I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours; and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them. I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are. While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled. But now I come to You; and these things I speak in the world so that they may have My joy made full in themselves. I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:6-16‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:15-17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

No, it is told opposite to your opposing words..


John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.


John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.


John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

I just quoted Christ’s very words telling them to REMAIN IN HIM. REMAIN IN ME AND I IN YOU.

 

[prophecy_uk]

They didn’t need the Holy Spirit while He was with them, they were already Spiritually discerned by Christ’s words.

‬‬

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You state, against the faith, that they already abide in Him, yet the Spirit is given to them ( to abide in them and them in Him then) when Christ is crucified and risen and glorified.

Just let me know how much of Gods sword you want to oppose, I will show you all you speak as I have done to all on this forum so far.



John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

The word abide means to stay, remain, continue, dwell. You don’t tell someone to remain in Christ who is not currently in Christ. He referred to them as the branches whom The Father had pruned/cleansed. Branches are attached to the vine/Christ.

 

[prophecy_uk]

I just quoted Christ’s very words telling them to REMAIN IN HIM. REMAIN IN ME AND I IN YOU.

You quoted your on idea of the words, and the words of Christ are opposite to your idea, as Christ is in them when He rises to give His Spirit, or we are none of His. Good luck proving your doctrine to someone who knows nothing.

 

[prophecy_uk]

The word abide means to stay, remain, continue, dwell. You don’t tell someone to remain in Christ who is not currently in Christ. He referred to them as the branches whom The Father had pruned/cleansed. Branches are attached to the vine/Christ.

Christ says to remain in Him, when they are enabled to be in Him and He in them, what a selfish thought to think Jesus was in them already and they in Him, when He shows this is only done through the Spirit and how He needed to di or they cant be IN Him or He in them.

 

[prophecy_uk]

Your own interpretation is only that, nothing much.


But the other words ( which you try to ignore but cannot) says, that to be in Christ and He in us, to be perfect, is through being joined to the Lord to be one Spirit..



John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.


1 Corinthians 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

 

[BNR32FAN]

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

And I just proved they weren’t in the flesh in post 406. Read what Paul wrote in Romans 8 before verse 9.


“For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:5-11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

We’re the 11 faithful apostles hostile towards God? Were they not able to subject themselves to the will of God? Were they not able to please God? You have a lot to learn about context. Next time don’t post one verse out of context to try to support your point, read the chapter and see if the message supports your point.

 

[prophecy_uk]

Jesus is the vine, and we are the branches, we are the planting of the Lord, to be called tees of righteousness, this is the righteousness of Christ given when He died to us..




Isaiah 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.


Romans 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Christ says to remain in Him, when they are enabled to be in Him and He in them, what a selfish thought to think Jesus was in them already and they in Him, when He shows this is only done through the Spirit and how He needed to di or they cant be IN Him or He in them.

No He didn’t. Your adding to what he said. He said remain in Me and I in you. He never said anything about later on or when your able to, that’s just your added content.

 

[A_Thinker]

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

What is it that you see in this passage ?

Do you not see a bunch of people claiming relation to Christ ... per their works ?

‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’

And what does Jesus say to them ... ‘I never knew you.'

Doesn't this say that salvation is based upon relationship with Christ ... i.e. knowing Him ... and being known of Him ?

Isn't that the only way the murderer adulterer David is saved ... or Paul, the persecutor of the Church ... or Peter, who denied Him three times ?

What's the scripture ... "If you deny Me before men, I will deny you before My Father in heaven." ? How does Peter get a pass on that ?

Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

 

[prophecy_uk]

And I just proved they weren’t in the flesh in post 406. Read what Paul wrote in Romans 8 before verse 9.

You did not show they were in the Spirit, ( they were in the flesh) for the Spirit was not yet given until Christ was glorified..


John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

 

[prophecy_uk]

“For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:5-11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

 

[BNR32FAN]

Jesus is the vine, and we are the branches, we are the planting of the Lord, to be called tees of righteousness, this is the righteousness of Christ given when He died to us..




Isaiah 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.


Romans 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

This is irrelevant to the discussion. These 11 faithful apostles were not of the flesh because of the words Jesus gave them. They were already instructed by God during His ministry.

 

[Danthemailman]

What is it that you see in this passage ?

Do you not see a bunch of people claiming relation to Christ ... per their works ?

‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’

And what does Jesus say to them ... ‘I never knew you.'

Doesn't this say that salvation is based upon relationship with Christ ... i.e. knowing Him ... and being known of Him ?

Amen! John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him and not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people in Matthew 7:22-23 were not true converts. Jesus never knew them.