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What about someone who's severely addicted and can't overcome sin, even though they want to?
I don’t know anyone who can overcome sin completely but everyone can repent. The backsliders I was referring to are the ones who know they’re doing wrong but they just continue in their sin without repenting.
According to Jesus, it’s the only work that we do to be saved.
John 6No that’s not what He said at all. Please quote where you think He said that.
Only Christ knows, man can't tell. I personally believe when saved/born again/accepting Christ with a true and humble heart, one can't loose their salvation, but they can loose their true love/joy they once had with Christ by many methods- be it the trappings of this world, not repenting from your sins/convictions that Christ embeds into your heart through sanctification, or relying too on ones culture/tradition.
Its not about how good you think you should be for Christ, its about what Christ means to you. Does he mean everything, does he bring real joy into your heart?
Romans 14 is a chapter close to my heart at present. Many Christians are obsessed with the minor issues in Christianity and blow them out of proportion. They major in minor issues, their focus is on the small moat in their brother or sisters eye, rather than the big leavened beam of pride, high-minded grandeur, old traditions and baggage in their own eye.
A very grave sin in the sight of Christ.
That there are alot of people in church that aren't saved is a scary and sad thought.
Salvation can be misperceived, but never actually had and lost.
I agree with much of what you said. I have some problem with the last part "in the end it comes down to the individual". I don't know why some people lose faith, but of course the individual is responsible. At the same time God wants to keep us and won't cut us off the tree for just any reason. He also fertilizes the soil. So... given, we trust in Him and not our own efforts.
Salvation cannot be lost. There’s no category in scripture for that. God is the one who changes the heart. We can’t undo what God has done.
I know you want scripture, but there’s a lot and I don’t want to flood this thread. Suffice it to say, the first 11 chapters of Romans explains it nicely.
You’re almost right. You can violate the covenant and incur the cursings of the covenant. But that’s not the same thing as “losing” salvation. There’s no “losing” language in the covenant.
For this passage to be a completely defensible argument for the loss of a believers salvation, ... it has to be ASSUMED that Jesus is speaking of "those who have believed".
But the passage does not make that clear. These could easily be pretenders, ... such as Jesus met often in His ministry.
Also, the work that the Father desires is identified by Jesus as "believing upon the One He has sent" in John 6
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”
Ah, but this King has said, that having once accepted you as His own, He will never cast you aside. And this King does not go back on His word ...
Indeed, this is actually a good starting point @LoveGodsWord , because my view is that I agree with @Hammster that we cannot lose our salvation based on Romans 1-11, and Galatians, from violating the Law, the Covenant with Israel, but we can undo our salvation and wreck it as it were by choosing to follow a different belief system, or by preaching a false Gospel, based on Galatians 1:8.
I'd rather you made up your mind one way or another. Don't sit on the fence by saying you agree with much of what I said and then contradict that view by alluding to the contrary.
If you still don't get it after reading my detailed exegesis backed by scripture; I have nothing more to add.
That's what I'm talking about too. Except you're talking about those who can stop and won't. Whereas I'm talking about those who can't stop, even though they know it's wrong and they want to. I'm not trying to challenge you, I'm just looking to sort it out.
John 6
25 And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when camest thou hither?
26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
There are differing views on salvation.
Some Christians believe that once saved, one cannot lose salvation. IOW, they believe that eternal life is guaranteed. On the flip side, there are those that believe that even though we are saved, we still have the risk of losing our and eternal life if we fail to abide in Christ until the end of our mortal life.
What is your position on this topic? Kindly support your case with relevant scriptures.
Perhaps you have a misunderstanding? I do not know anyone that believes what you are saying here. According to the scriptures we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved, it is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation through faith in God's Word and is the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14. At the second coming Christs reward is with him *Revelation 22:12. According to the scriptures no one receives God's Grace if they do not believe and follow God's Word (see John 3:16-21; Hebrews 10:26-31). Faith therefore does not abolish Gods' law it establishes Gods law in all those who believe and follow Gods' Word (see Romans 3:31; Romans 13:8-10; Romans 8:4 etc). So according to the scriptures provided above salvation can be lost as Gods' salvation is conditional on believing and following (the fruit) what God's Word says (see also James 2:17-26).SDA only are law keepers ( which is not the law of faith).
Perhaps you have a misunderstanding? I do not know anyone that believes what you are saying here. According to the scriptures we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved, it is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation through faith in God's Word and is the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14. At the second coming Christs reward is with him *Revelation 22:12. According to the scriptures no one receives God's Grace if they do not believe and follow God's Word (see John 3:16-21; Hebrews 10:26-31). Faith therefore does not abolish Gods' law it establishes Gods law in all those who believe and follow Gods' Word (see Romans 3:31; Romans 13:8-10; Romans 8:4 etc).
Hope this is helpful.
It is the difference between relationship and fellowship. The Lord says that He chastens all that are His. That can't be true if He disowns them at the first sign of disobedience.A believer's love and joy is salvation in Christ, take that away and, they have nothing. But according to you, that can be taken away and, they'll still retain their salvation.
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