Can salvation be lost?

[Lostbreed_ofchampion]

Does anyone remembers the day he accepted Jesus? Because I don't. I know I was 13. I know why I approached God. I was lonely and sad because I wasn't popular enough and my friends were avoiding me for no apparent reason. I gave my life to Jesus but as I abandoned myself to Jesus and felt joy right after I couldn't help myself but to feel sorrow for those that will go to hell and my immediate concern for other people's souls kinda overshadowed my joy of being saved. I lost my way like one year after. I wasn't a good student, a good athlete and a good christian. That joy has unfortunately needed several reboots along the years. I believe God renews our joy when we let Him, and accepting Jesus won't erase pain, nor guarantee a constant state of euphorical joy. I also don't believe that once saved always saved is accurate. I have been getting in trouble with people and with my own family that is also christian. I've made them sad for the most part. I've made massive tantrums and under my flesh I have disrespected my mother , father and brother after being saved. To realize that makes me extremely uncomfortable with myself. My brother acts as a stumbling block but I've been a stumbling stone too to my mother and father. I've hit my brother, i've pushed physically my dad and mother in my anger outbursts. In the meantime, I don't have the same concern for people's souls as I once had. Which is what I'm striving to get back even if it can make me lose sleep. Even tho, I did so much wrong I feel sorrow for it and I know it's not what I'm called to do.


To be honest. I think that once you have been touched by God's spirit and you accept Jesus into your heart you won't be able to see things on another perspective even if you run away, even if you sin, even if you get angry His grace always brings you back. There is a concern , something worrying you deep inside. I understand my sinful nature now more than ever. I was 13 but I didn't totally understood how bad I was back then. I've been to extreme pentecostal events and I feel that I belong to Him even if I know I don't deserve that level of love.

Someone that once "accepted Jesus" and goes back to the world and never feels a deep sorrow for his/her actions was never saved in my opinion.


Can salvation be lost? ITS DEBATE TIME!!!

 

[Thomas Woods]

No
Once you are saved, you are always saved. Do you remember Jesus told a parable about the shepard with 100 sheep and one went missing. The shepard dropped everything to go find the one that was lost. The lost became more important than the 99 sheep still in the flock. The prodigal son was welcomed back into his fathers house, never mind the awful things the son had done while he was gone spending all that money.

 

[Ken Rank]

Can salvation be lost? ITS DEBATE TIME!!!

Can it be? The better question is, "Are you even saved YET?" I say no... I say "he who endures until the end will be saved." That isn't saying we don't belong to God, I believe we are His... but saved? The wages of sin is death... and we still die. We still decay, get disease, are affronted by all manner of sin all the time, and the messiah is not here... we have not been perfected which means we stand imperfect... and we are saved? I don't think so... I think we stand in hope knowing we will be saved.

Now, can a son or daughter of God... somebody truly in covenant with Him... walk away and cease being His? Well, the common mainstream Christian interpretation of Israel is that they were in covenant and were cut off. So... my answer is yes.

 

[Lostbreed_ofchampion]

Can it be? The better question is, "Are you even saved YET?" I say no... I say "he who endures until the end will be saved." That isn't saying we don't belong to God, I believe we are His... but saved? The wages of sin is death... and we still die. We still decay, get disease, are affronted by all manner of sin all the time, and the messiah is not here... we have not been perfected which means we stand imperfect... and we are saved? I don't think so... I think we stand in hope knowing we will be saved.

Now, can a son or daughter of God... somebody truly in covenant with Him... walk away and cease being His? Well, the common mainstream Christian interpretation of Israel is that they were in covenant and were cut off. So... my answer is yes.

Amazing response brother..or should I say future brother ?? Thanks.

 

[South Bound]

Does anyone remembers the day he accepted Jesus? Because I don't. I know I was 13. I know why I approached God. I was lonely and sad because I wasn't popular enough and my friends were avoiding me for no apparent reason. I gave my life to Jesus but as I abandoned myself to Jesus and felt joy right after I couldn't help myself but to feel sorrow for those that will go to hell and my immediate concern for other people's souls kinda overshadowed my joy of being saved. I lost my way like one year after. I wasn't a good student, a good athlete and a good christian. That joy has unfortunately needed several reboots along the years. I believe God renews our joy when we let Him, and accepting Jesus won't erase pain, nor guarantee a constant state of euphorical joy. I also don't believe that once saved always saved is accurate. I have been getting in trouble with people and with my own family that is also christian. I've made them sad for the most part. I've made massive tantrums and under my flesh I have disrespected my mother , father and brother after being saved. To realize that makes me extremely uncomfortable with myself. My brother acts as a stumbling block but I've been a stumbling stone too to my mother and father. I've hit my brother, i've pushed physically my dad and mother in my anger outbursts. In the meantime, I don't have the same concern for people's souls as I once had. Which is what I'm striving to get back even if it can make me lose sleep. Even tho, I did so much wrong I feel sorrow for it and I know it's not what I'm called to do.


To be honest. I think that once you have been touched by God's spirit and you accept Jesus into your heart you won't be able to see things on another perspective even if you run away, even if you sin, even if you get angry His grace always brings you back. There is a concern , something worrying you deep inside. I understand my sinful nature now more than ever. I was 13 but I didn't totally understood how bad I was back then. I've been to extreme pentecostal events and I feel that I belong to Him even if I know I don't deserve that level of love.

Someone that once "accepted Jesus" and goes back to the world and never feels a deep sorrow for his/her actions was never saved in my opinion.


Can salvation be lost? ITS DEBATE TIME!!!

Unfortunately, we're not allowed to offer Biblical counsel on this issue so just suffice it to say, no, Jesus cannot lose one's salvation.

Incidentally, "accepting Jesus" isn't Biblical. It's just an emotional plea made up by Charles Finney.

 

[Ken Rank]

Amazing response brother..or should I say future brother ?? Thanks.

No, we are brothers... we have repented and are walking in His ways toward the coming Kingdom and all that. It is just the idea of "saved" as a word... it has taken on a life of it's own. We have even narrowed it down to a day and time... for example, I could say I got saved on September 3rd at noon in 1995 (that was when I made a profession and got baptized). But salvation is a process... we turn toward God now and continue to learn and grow until the day we are perfected. Even the Holy Spirit was given as a deposit toward more future work (2 Corinthians 1:22 and 2 Corinthians 5:5) so this is a process... not a moment in time.

Blessings.
Ken

 

[Ken Rank]

Incidentally, "accepting Jesus" isn't Biblical. It's just an emotional plea made up by Charles Finney.

Amen... the call was never "repeat this after me," it was "REPENT and be baptized." Religious people really have a way of mucking things up!

 

[football5680]

This belief is either false or meaningless because it requires circular reasoning. You would have to say that anybody who has ever renounced Christianity never actually believed in the first place, therefore they are not saved. In their own mind they were believers but to uphold this belief you must say they weren't. So it would be impossible to determine whether you are a true believer who will be saved, or somebody who just thinks they are a believer.

You will find out whether you are saved or not when you die. If you remain faithful and endure to the end as we are commanded, then you will be saved. You do not obtain eternal salvation at a single point in time while you are living. As long as you are still alive, you can choose to reject God and if you do this then you will go to hell.

 

[South Bound]

Can it be? The better question is, "Are you even saved YET?" I say no... I say "he who endures until the end will be saved."

The Bible says we can know that we are saved now. It also says that God preserves His saints to the end.

Now, can a son or daughter of God... somebody truly in covenant with Him... walk away and cease being His? Well, the common mainstream Christian interpretation of Israel is that they were in covenant and were cut off. So... my answer is yes.

If we were talking about Israel you might have a point. But we're talking about born again regenerated and indwelt believers.

If you really believe Jesus is too incompetent to keep that which the Father has given Him and to keep us from falling, then I sure hope you're keeping the law perfectly every day.

 

[South Bound]

This belief is either false or meaningless because it requires circular reasoning. You would have to say that anybody who has ever renounced Christianity never actually believed in the first place, therefore they are not saved.

... like the Bible says.

You will find out whether you are saved or not when you die

But the Bible says we'd better sort that out now Don't you think it's a better idea to do it now rather than take a chance that we could be saved after we die?

 

[football5680]

But the Bible says we'd better sort that out now Don't you think it's a better idea to do it now rather than take a chance that we could be saved after we die?

I wasn't talking about obtaining salvation after death. Whether or not you are saved is determined while you are still living by the choices that you make. What I was saying was that you will find out whether you were saved once you die and are judged.

 

[smithed64]

If you have broken God's laws and continued to sin, then most likely you were never saved to begin with?

If you have broken God's laws and repented of your sins and placed your trust in Christ, then you could be saved. I'm not God, so can't specifically say you are, unless I saw the fruits of the Spirit. I can though speak out about the Gospel and those fruits if you show them or not.

The Bible speaks of preserving the Saints and it's true. So I will believe that because the Word of God is true. But it also speaks of apostasy and those that have turned from God, this is also true, so I will believe in that also.

But here's the good news for you. Your concerned about it. Your questioning and examining yourself. Let the Holy Spirit guide you, listen to that conviction in your heart. Read the Bible and let it work on you. If you have sin, Repent, turn away from it and place your trust in Christ. Come to God with a contrite heart and surrender it all over to him.

Don't worry about the dogma of churches. Obey God, He'll lead you in the right direction. You can be saved anywhere. Remember we are not promised tomorrow. So repent today, this very moment, surrender to God and let Him do His work in you.

 

[CodyFaith]

John 3:14-16
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Whoever looks upon the Son of Man and believes is saved, just as whoever looked upon the bronze serpent and was healed. It was a one time act for the Israelite's to look upon the serpent and were HEALED, and it is a one time act for the Israelite's to look on Jesus and believe in him and are SAVED.

 

[Ken Rank]

The Bible says we can know that we are saved now. It also says that God preserves His saints to the end.

Respectfully, please provide verses when making claims. I am not saying you are wrong, but if you cite a verse, you must know it. And if you know it, why make me take the time to find it?

If you really believe Jesus is too incompetent to keep that which the Father has given Him and to keep us from falling, then I sure hope you're keeping the law perfectly every day.

It has nothing to do with incompetence. What is the wage of sin? The answer is death... we STILL decay, we STILL get disease, we STILL die which means even though Yeshua has earned the right to perfect us, make us incorruptible, resurrect the dead and all that... the simple truth is, he hasn't done it yet. This is something he will do when he returns. Therefore, while we >>DO<< belong to God, the idea that we have been 'saved' is not consistent with all 66 books.

 

[Ken Rank]

I would like to add a thought. In English, the word "saved" has not only taken on a life of it's own, it also isn't always properly translated. For example, if you read Romans 9 verse 20(ish) on, you'll see Paul quoting Hosea, Isaiah, and others and he is talking about the Northern Kingdom. When he gets to Romans 9:27, we see that, "all of Israel will be saved." But if you look at Isaiah 10:22 which is what Paul is quoting, you'll see that the word used there is a form of shuv and is properly translated as "returned." So Rom. 9:27 isn't even talking about being "saved" as we use the word and this is one example of many I can share where this is the case. We WILL BE saved, WILL BE perfected, WILL BE changed, WILL BE made incorruptible, WILL BE no longer subjected to the sin of the world. Right now... not so much. Doubt me? Just go buy some popcorn chicken from WalMart and look at the check-out magazines and see how we... and our children... just standing in line with an innocent cup of chicken... have to look at sex, self indulgence, homosexuality, divorce, murder, adultery, and much more. We have not been saved yet!

 

[South Bound]

I wasn't talking about obtaining salvation after death. Whether or not you are saved is determined while you are still living by the choices that you make. What I was saying was that you will find out whether you were saved once you die and are judged.

The Bible says that we can know we are saved now.

 

[Ken Rank]

The Bible says that we can know we are saved now.

Verse please?

 

[South Bound]

Respectfully, please provide verses when making claims. I am not saying you are wrong, but if you cite a verse, you must know it. And if you know it, why make me take the time to find it?

Show us the verses that say Christ can lose our salvation and that we can become un-born again.

It has nothing to do with incompetence. What is the wage of sin? The answer is death... we STILL decay, we STILL get disease, we STILL die which means even though Yeshua has earned the right to perfect us, make us incorruptible, resurrect the dead and all that... the simple truth is, he hasn't done it yet.

And yet, the Bible says Christ has still saved us.

This is something he will do when he returns. Therefore, while we >>DO<< belong to God, the idea that we have been 'saved' is not consistent with all 66 books.

Fine. Show us the verses that say the elect who are saved are not currently saved.

 

[South Bound]

Verse please?

Start with 1 John 5:13

 

[Ken Rank]

Start with 1 John 5:13

We have eternal life, we have a promise in him, but you are not saved yet. SouthBound, we have almost deified the word "saved" and taken it from something that is a process to a specific single "point in time" (i.e. "I got saved today"). But the truth is, if the wages of sin is death, and we still die, still decay, still get disease, still get exposed to all manner of sin and unrighteousness, are still not perfected, not incorruptible... then we are not saved yet. Look at the last one... if when he comes we are made "incorruptible" then, if he isn't here yet, we are still "corruptible."

Now, truth be told we are only separated by how we define a word or two. I agree we ARE sons and daughters of God NOW..... but the idea of being "saved" is when we are changed, when death no longer is part of our life... pain, sin, anything like that. Until there is peace and messiah is reigning over the nations as promised, we are not there yet.